Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, Docup(A)-Koniu(J)

[koniu]

PM phase without combat

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: koniu



Last turn he had 600+CAP dont know when all others are gone. Maybe they LCAP ships in Namlea hex but if so why Docup leave his Carrier north of Ceram.
Or maybe i will see huge escorted strike against KB

I in the middle of Japanese naval attack

3xCV are gone 3xCVL also

Hmmmm seems like at least 6 carriers of some sort ...

Not exactly a plan needed for the DEI ...

AM phase is done

At lest 4xCV heavy damaged or sunk, 1 CVL sunk two more damaged
CL sunk in Ambon hex

No allied counterattack

A reverse Midway! Congratulations!!!

[koniu]

Japan lost 300 planes allies 220 (200 on decks)
Allies CV TF annihilated

[JocMeister]

Congratulations! Wonder what DOCUP was trying to do...

[koniu]

Japanese strike

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kofiau at 79,106

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 291
B7A2 Grace x 237
D4Y4 Judy x 247

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 28
F4U-1D Corsair x 47
F6F-5 Hellcat x 135

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 37 destroyed, 21 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 34 destroyed, 14 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 5 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Independence, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Intrepid, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Monterey, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Essex, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CVL San Jacinto, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CV West Virginia, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires
CLAA San Diego
DD Baldwin
DD Kalk
DD Blue II
DD Carmick, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD McCook
DD Cassin Young, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Frankford, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Wickes

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Congratulations! Wonder what DOCUP was trying to do...

Don`t know but placing so small CV force as forward guard was just stupid
he dont even set his bombers on attack Even LBA bombers should get trough so week CAP

If he want to protect his landing in Namlea and Ambon on his place i will place my CV 120nm south of Ambon.

From bad news i lost CA that was damage during last turn

[koniu]

Air loses
Notice how short a2a phase was. Lesss that 50 CV based fighters lost
Acrualy i lost only 2 A7M2 over enemy carriers and 10 lost over Manado agains B-29 raid
Over ambon 15 Sams go trough F6F like knife trough butter

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 55 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 15
D4Y4 Judy x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 3 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships
LST-452, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Achilles, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LCI-75, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

All Ki-44 lost from P-38 Sweep over Ternate

[veji1]

You effectively ended the war.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: veji1

You effectively ended the war.

sadly it can be true
I was expecting fighting at lest 1000+ plane death star and was ready for lose of half of KB and i find this baby CAP
What just happen?

I just check.
even after losing those carrier Docup still have 900 CV/CVL capacity and over 2000 CVE capacity. Instead in shadows he should use them today and finish KB.

Only what is saving him now is that it was price he was wiling to pay for other op.

[koniu]

I feel strange.
deep i not happy after this turn.
Not sure why.

[Lowpe]

Congrats![:D]

Did any of the Allied fighters scramble from the Carriers? Or was it all the airborne only fighters that engaged?

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Congrats![:D]

Did any of the Allied fighters scramble from the Carriers? Or was it all the airborne only fighters that engaged?

Initial CAP was only 22 fighters in air[X(]
I need watch replay again but i think less that half of enemy figters had chance to engage
Look at interception times
Raid was detected 36 minutes before arrive while most of groups engaged 30-40 minutes after detection so they have no time
For me it look like CAP/LCAP setting for groups. Instead over CV TF they where somewhere between CV hex and LCAP hex and air control was forced to recall them but it was to late



CAP engaged:
VMF-211/A with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 3 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
VMF-123 /B with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 2 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 13 on standby, 18 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
VF-14 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 14 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 17 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-50 with F6F-5 Hellcat (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 17 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes
VF-51 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
VMF-441 with F4U-1A Corsair (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 16 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes

[koniu]

turn send to Docup.

KB will retreat. Fuel is low.

I need to avoid Fletcher TF north on my position i sending SAG to intercept another SAG will protect KB.

DD Takanami collides with CVL Ryuho. DD is heavily damaged. CVL only paint scratch

Waiting for Docup reaction

[Lowpe]

While you wait, what was the makeup of your carrier task forces...how many planes in each task force. Your settings for the strike...if not too much work.

I am kind of surprised there is no BBs with those big carriers for the Yanks...or have you sank most of them?

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

While you wait, what was the makeup of your carrier task forces...how many planes in each task force. Your settings for the strike...if not too much work.

I am kind of surprised there is no BBs with those big carriers for the Yanks...or have you sank most of them?

All 700 dive and TT bombers at 14k, naval attack, range 8, 10% search

Fighters(550 total) more complicated
1/3 escort, 60% CAP, range 0, between 15-22k, one group at 7k (dedicated CAP)
1/3 escort, 0% CAP, range 8, at 14k (dedicated escort)
1/3 escort, 10-30%CAP, range 8, at 14k (they can both escort and CAP) low CAP mean that they will go escort in numbers or if not they will scramble for CAP from decks and that is much faster that recalling airborne fighters from long distance.

I have two CV TFs each ~550 planes (I never have problem with coordination)
If i can i will use single TF but game limit CV TF to 25 ships only and i want to have at lest 1DD for any carrier in TF



I saw there BBs but they disrepair in this turn. I believe they will magnet lot of bombers maybe saving some carriers by that.

[Lowpe]

That is how I organized my carriers too, before my last fight when I decided to break them down into 200 plane groups...big mistake as I had lots of problems with task forces staying together -- in truth my fault just not experienced at running so many task forces together. Live and learn.[:)]

I like your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 CAP setting...in my recent KB engagement I switched and used a dedicated 50% 0 hex CAP, and not a single plane scrambled...which has made me think whenever a KV clash is guessed at a 90 percent cap or even 100 percent cap might be better.

So many interacting cause and effects...tough to get a handle on.

Poor Docup, he must be horribly frustrated.

[koniu]

I offered for Docup redoing this turn.

It look that reason why only that single CV TF stay north of Ceram was Docup fighting with wife and just end turn without double checking orders.

I propose two solution.

1. Docup will use last middle turn save he have (just before ending turn) and he will change orders for only that single CV TF, and we will watch turn.(CVs will join his SAG he retreat south)

2. We both redone this turn. Both sides will retreat for starting positions. Both sides will stop offensive moves in area for 3-5 days for fresh start. Docup will not land in Namlea. Also Docup will not start invasions in other map areas for few days just because he know KB is in DEI.

Then we will decide what will be most fair solution for both of us.

Docup don`t ask for redo, it is my initiative because i want to end this game in late 1945 not now. How many of us have chance to play in 1945. Most of games ends much much earlier.

[witpqs]

Good-O! [8D]

[Yaab]

I have a crazy idea.

If you look at IJN aircraft (Judy,Sam etc) and compare them to USN aircraft (Hellcat, Corsair), you will see the Japs have a big cruise speed advantage over American aircraft! Corsair/Hellcat fly 190/200 mph at cruise speed, while Judy/Sam cruise speeds are 265/259 mph. So a Jap raid is detected at 120 nautical miles and its ETA is 36 minutes.

Now, let's say Japs travel at 260 miles per hour. 260 mph/60 minutes = 4,3 miles per minute
120 miles/4.3 miles per minute = 27,90 minutes=rounded 28 minutes

Let’s say the Allied CV TF sits in the middle of a hex, and interception takes place at the NE hex’s edge. This means Japs are intercepted 22 miles away from the CV TF. Thus they don’t cover 120 miles , but 98 miles, or 100 miles rounded
So they will cover this distance in 23,5 minutes.

If Hellcats fly CAP at 0 range, and are positioned on the SW edge of the hex, they have to cover 46 miles at 190mph, which is 3,1 miles per minute. They will arrive on the NE edge of the hex after 14.8 minutes, or 15 minutes.

They patrol at 9,000 feet and have to climb to 17,000 feet at 3,000 feet per minute, which takes them another 3 minutes.

So they will arrive at the NE hex edge after 18 minutes of Jap attack detection.

The weather in hex is Heavy rain, so they have problems visually contacting the enemy, ‘cause US Navy fighters don’t have radars.

All this may explain why the Allied CAP is porous at this stage of the war.

If CAP fighters use cruise speeds for repositioning, then it would actually make sense to have a squadron of Buffaloes in a CV TF even in 1944/1945 since Buffaloes cruise speed is 258 mph. They will cover 46 miles in 11 minutes instead of Corsair/Hellcat 15 minutes.

Just a thought.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I like your 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 CAP setting...in my recent KB engagement I switched and used a dedicated 50% 0 hex CAP, and not a single plane scrambled...which has made me think whenever a KV clash is guessed at a 90 percent cap or even 100 percent cap might be better.

Problem with heavy 80%+ CAP is that You will risk that enemy ride can catch You with pants down. Such CAP mean that all planes are in rotation so with bad conditions You can be attacked while many fighters is refueling on decks or they are going down after patrol to refuel. My experience show that huge CAP level gives nice numbers of planes against first Wave but after that CAP number drastically fast is degradating and next enemy waves can arrive with small opposition.

Balanced 50-60% CAP gives little smaller CAP at beginning (can be compensated with time given by radar warning) but when later waves arrive CAP is reinforced by fresh fighters. In my last battles i always set CAP at 60% and in all those fight I have at beginning at lest 70-100 fighters intercepting - enough to hold attackers long enough before reinforcements manage to climb up.