What if mod

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suspect that Germany would only have based U-boats and a couple of commercial raiders there. And that the U-boats would soon have had access to secret bases on Japanese territory.

I also suspect that Germany would have traded their bases to Japan almost as soon as they entered war with CW in exchange for support for their U-boats. So when Japan goes to war with USA all the German territories would have been Japanese.

I think that what happened to the German Fleet in this area during WWI would affect on how Germany located their surface fleet prior to WWII.

warspite1

But if supported by auxiliaries (as per real life) then what would be the difference between these ships running amok in the Western Pacific/Indian Ocean as opposed to the South Atlantic/Indian Ocean? - apart from a few thousand miles of course.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suspect that Germany would only have based U-boats and a couple of commercial raiders there. And that the U-boats would soon have had access to secret bases on Japanese territory.

I also suspect that Germany would have traded their bases to Japan almost as soon as they entered war with CW in exchange for support for their U-boats. So when Japan goes to war with USA all the German territories would have been Japanese.

I think that what happened to the German Fleet in this area during WWI would affect on how Germany located their surface fleet prior to WWII.

warspite1

But if supported by auxiliaries (as per real life) then what would be the difference between these ships running amok in the Western Pacific/Indian Ocean as opposed to the South Atlantic/Indian Ocean? - apart from a few thousand miles of course.

More bases for the auxiliaries to hide? More uncertainty for the Allied high command and a larger area for the RN ships to cover?

The point I was trying to make was that the German regular fleet would not put much value in those bases. They would assume that any regular ships based there would soon be hunted down and lost. The value would mostly be for U-boats and as real estate to use for bargaining with the Japanese.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suspect that Germany would only have based U-boats and a couple of commercial raiders there. And that the U-boats would soon have had access to secret bases on Japanese territory.

I also suspect that Germany would have traded their bases to Japan almost as soon as they entered war with CW in exchange for support for their U-boats. So when Japan goes to war with USA all the German territories would have been Japanese.

I think that what happened to the German Fleet in this area during WWI would affect on how Germany located their surface fleet prior to WWII.

warspite1

But if supported by auxiliaries (as per real life) then what would be the difference between these ships running amok in the Western Pacific/Indian Ocean as opposed to the South Atlantic/Indian Ocean? - apart from a few thousand miles of course.

More bases for the auxiliaries to hide? More uncertainty for the Allied high command and a larger area for the RN ships to cover?

The point I was trying to make was that the German regular fleet would not put much value in those bases. They would assume that any regular ships based there would soon be hunted down and lost. The value would mostly be for U-boats and as real estate to use for bargaining with the Japanese.

warspite1

But the chances of being hunted down and lost would not be different (in fact with hindsight after the fall of France and the entry of Italy into the war it would be a whole lot better) to the chances of Graf Spee or Admiral Scheer - both of whom ranged as far as the Indian Ocean.

Would the Germans have based one or more out in the Pacific if they still had their mandated territories? Well I don't know but the ships were designed primarily to destroy enemy merchant shipping and whether in the North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian or Pacific Oceans, the danger was the same (provided their auxiliaries were on hand) and that was being damaged sufficiently that they could not find their way home before being overwhelmed by enemy units.

[Orm]

I consider Graf Spee and Admiral Scheer as regular Kriegsmarine and I do not think their missions would have been altered with bases in the pacific. Graf Spee would still have been sunk outside Montevideo.

What I am trying to say is that the German auxiliary cruisers and their support ships would have access to better starting points and access to friendly support bases. No need for Komet to travel halfway around the world in order to raid the Pacific. Komet could simply had been based in the Pacific to begin with.

I do not think that Germany would have based any regular warships at all in the Pacific.

[warspite1]

But iirc the Auxiliary Cruisers were after thoughts. They were requisitioned and converted after the War had started 39/40 so they would have to travel halfway around the world anyway!

Unless the What-if is that the Germans decided to use these auxiliary cruisers in good time for conversion - say 1938?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

But iirc the Auxiliary Cruisers were after thoughts. They were requisitioned and converted after the War had started 39/40 so they would have to travel halfway around the world anyway!

Unless the What-if is that the Germans decided to use these auxiliary cruisers in good time for conversion - say 1938?

If they had the bases I suspect that they might have had a commercial ship there or two they could have attempted to convert. Or even have had planned for it in advance.

But disregarding those auxiliary cruisers I am not sure if we are in disagreement.

What I mainly think is:
- No German warships, including the pocket battleships, would have been based in the Pacific. I doubt even torpedo boats would have been based there.
- A few U-boats would have been based there.
- After the WWII begun Germany would have attempted to trade or sell those territories to Japan.

[warspite1]

The only disagreement is the use of a pocket-battleship (or two). I would say yes on the basis that hunting down merchant shipping is what they were built for and if they have the bases why not?

DOCUP its your mod - over to you! [:)]

[DOCUP]

Thanks for the input guys. I will try and address everyone's comments with my own thoughts.

Symon: I remember you or another developer mentioning what you said. I know the Germans will be Japanese in the end. Your are right about it being just art and specs, but for your imagination. Your not the bearer of bad news or are you to late. I opened this thread for advise, thoughts, and guidance. I am new to this (first time really trying this).

Orm: You are probably right about Germany not basing valuable assets in the Solomons. Commercial raiders and U boats would probably be a better risk vs reward play.

Warspite: A comment you made struck home to me. "but then its no fun". I took this on for the fun of it. Something for me to mess around with in my spare time. It has grown into a learning experience along the way.

I have made my decision. I am going to keep the surface assets. I hope you all keep following and posting, I need someone to keep me in line. let me know your thoughts or ideas.

[DOCUP]

I have to say the Niehorster webpage is very interesting.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Thanks for the input guys. I will try and address everyone's comments with my own thoughts.

Symon: I remember you or another developer mentioning what you said. I know the Germans will be Japanese in the end. Your are right about it being just art and specs, but for your imagination. Your not the bearer of bad news or are you to late. I opened this thread for advise, thoughts, and guidance. I am new to this (first time really trying this).

Orm: You are probably right about Germany not basing valuable assets in the Solomons. Commercial raiders and U boats would probably be a better risk vs reward play.

Warspite: A comment you made struck home to me. "but then its no fun". I took this on for the fun of it. Something for me to mess around with in my spare time. It has grown into a learning experience along the way.

I have made my decision. I am going to keep the surface assets. I hope you all keep following and posting, I need someone to keep me in line. let me know your thoughts or ideas.

warspite1

Nice one - I will follow this with interest - if only to see the fine ship art of the Kriegsmarine (and additional French and RN) vessels on the Pacific map! [:)]

[DOCUP]

Does anyone know why the Meteor wasn't sent to the Pacific?

[wdolson]

Touchy new technology engines with a poor service life, poor range, the air war was essentially already won with existing types, a history of trouble in tropical climates with other aircraft types (the Mosquito being the most severe), the lack of jets in Japanese service, a reluctance to put the most advanced weapons in a situation where they might fall into enemy hands and especially make their way into Russian hands, and probably a few other reasons I haven't thought of.

Bill

[Lowpe]

I thought the British used it mainly over friendly ground for fear of giving secrets to the enemy. At least that is what I recall.[:)]

[DOCUP]

Ok thanks guys.

[wdolson]

The Meteor did go to the continent and was mostly used defensively, but was used for ground attack some.

Bill

[TSCofield]

I believe they might have put a couple of pocket battleships in the Pacific to start the war. The main purpose, as others have said, was commerce raiding with those ships. The were designed to outgun a typical British cruiser which was the standard colonial 'capital ship' of the time. At 28 knots they would have outrun any standard British Battleship of the period. The Brits would have been forced to place additional battlecruisers in Singapore to guard against these ships. It would have been a similar problem they faced in the WW2 early on with at Coronel. British 8 inch cruisers would have been outgunned easily by two of these ships working in tandem. Theoretically Germany could have put all three of them in the Pacific at the start of the war.

As for the war, it is forgotten that Hitler planned hostilities as early as 1938 over Czechoslovakia. While the war didn't occur like Hitler thought there was still plans in place. It is theoretically possible the Hitler would have sent more ships out prior to the commencement of hostilities. These ships could have been sent in 1938/39 and stuck around as a possible threat to the Brits if hostilities started. Just having them sailing from port to port in the Pacific would have given the Admiralty some sleepless nights.

[DOCUP]

Still working on the mod. Well not for a few weeks but still thinking about it.

I have followed some of the comments posted above. I couldn't find any German AKEs. I have thought about putting CVL Bearn. I moved up the arrival dates for the two French BCs. They now start out on Dec 6. I am going to add BC Renown to the game. I am thinking of putting it in the Aussie waters with a CA and a DD squadron.

PI will get the A24s along with some fighter changes. One squadron will have P39s (this time with the tubrosuperchargers). The PI squadron gets some Lancers as an upgrade. These are the ones from the US squadron that changed to the P39. I am thinking this might help keep some of the surface raiders at bay.

I have been thinking of altering the Japanese some. I'm not sure what to do yet.


Any thoughts guys?

[DOCUP]

Someone correct me if I am wrong. AV Langley had atleast one catapult, was she able to launch AC underway? The same question goes for Commandante Teste?

[DOCUP]

Also does anyone have the BTD Destroyer or the AM Mauler in their mod?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Someone correct me if I am wrong. AV Langley had atleast one catapult, was she able to launch AC underway? The same question goes for Commandante Teste?

warspite1

I did not think Langley could launch aircraft by 1941 but someone may be able to confirm.

According to Conways, Commandant Teste had 4 catapults for launching seaplanes (which were recovered via crane from the water). In 1939 she carried one squadron of torpedo carrying Latecoere 298 floatplanes and a squadron of Loire-Nieuport 130 flying boats (26 aircraft in all).