Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Spidery]

Given the number of losses in airframes that the 4Es cause, I'd rather use and lose 2* the number in Zeroes/Judys than in Irvings. Unfortunately, the IJAAF only has 2-engine versions.

Is the HI cost that significant? I would be concerned about the extra supply to replace the aircraft and the loss of a few more of your best pilots. The only advantage of the 1E night fighters I can see (apart from the option to resize air groups) is they use up less space at smaller bases.

Looking at my Tracker, there are actually 2 groups other than the Endo Detachment (321 Ku S-1 and 321 Ku S-2) that can only use the J1N1-S version and no others. The rest can all choose from any of the other IJNAF 2Es or the C6N, and only 4 groups are allowed to use the A6M or D4Y frames (3 each). It's worth noting that you can probably resize those 3 units...

PDU On, I think all the groups can use any model once they have changed to a night fighter model. However, there are some groups that need specific models in order to change to using night fighters.

I haven't yet had to counter the B-29 but against the B-24 the only night fighter that seems to pull its weight has been the J1N1-S. Not sure why the Ki-46-III isn't performing well.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

Given the number of losses in airframes that the 4Es cause, I'd rather use and lose 2* the number in Zeroes/Judys than in Irvings. Unfortunately, the IJAAF only has 2-engine versions.

Is the HI cost that significant? I would be concerned about the extra supply to replace the aircraft and the loss of a few more of your best pilots. The only advantage of the 1E night fighters I can see (apart from the option to resize air groups) is they use up less space at smaller bases.

Looking at my Tracker, there are actually 2 groups other than the Endo Detachment (321 Ku S-1 and 321 Ku S-2) that can only use the J1N1-S version and no others. The rest can all choose from any of the other IJNAF 2Es or the C6N, and only 4 groups are allowed to use the A6M or D4Y frames (3 each). It's worth noting that you can probably resize those 3 units...

PDU On, I think all the groups can use any model once they have changed to a night fighter model. However, there are some groups that need specific models in order to change to using night fighters.

I haven't yet had to counter the B-29 but against the B-24 the only night fighter that seems to pull its weight has been the J1N1-S. Not sure why the Ki-46-III isn't performing well.

The 1Es die like flies, as does the Dinah for whatever reason. The J1N1-S is very reliable and steady. Not spectacular, but it works. The best though is having a mix, as then the benefit of the fast climbers get a lot of planes early, and really numbers engaging work better than anything else.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I cut the Jack off at version 2, and get the George to version 3. The Jack-v3 (the J2M5) just has an oddball combination of changes from the J2M3. It's 382 instead of 365, so less likely to be penalized by faster Allied fighters that are coming in for sweeps, but can't go as high. It is more maneuverable at its top band, however.

But compare to the George-3, the N1K5. Pretty much the same speed, George with more firepower (albeit a bit less accurate), same SR, same maneuver, and George can go to 39370 - high enough that P-38s can't get the dive on it although Mustangs and P-47s still can. Climb rate vs. the J2M5 isn't as much of a difference as the other versions. So it's as if the J2M5 is meant to be a filler in your CAP against sweeps, but it's SR3 which seems antithetical to the role of a filler. J2M5 and N1K5 are almost the same plane and so you're better off sticking with the faster-climbing J2M3. Also, if it ends up mattering, the N1K5 carries bigger bombs if you end up kami'ing them [:D].

*shrug*

For whatever reason the combination of climb, speed, armament and maneuver at height really make the J2M5 a solid defender late. It is the best I used to take on sweeps, but I didn't get to the George N1K5, so it could be similar. I have a feeling from what I've heard though that it's better lower in the CAP as a bomber killer and in any offensive missions you still have capability to initiate. I'd keep Frank 'r' up high with the Jacks, and it and the Ki-83 are the sweepers.

[Lowpe]

Dec 14, 1943

No night bombing. Irving Sa squadron repairing at Clark Field from being upgraded. The other Squadron is at Chumphon, and will upgrade in a few days to the Sa version.

Normal daytime heavy bombing by the Allies in Indochina, Marianas. My CAP didn't work, as no bombers hit the area I decided to trap. Will keep trying.

Port Blair didn't get a serious upgrade in fighter strength, but Lightnings are probably on CAP there now as well as P40s. Perhaps Allies moved a squadron of P47s there as only two swept in Indochina, not the normal 3 squadrons.

I am getting into that really dangerous time in Indochina, where Tavoy will fall shortly....but unfortunately, it is too early to simply pull up stakes and move back. Here is the bigger picture.

I need to get the forces that had defended Chiang Mai back to safety...they are halfway to the next hex.

I also have two shattered divisions that just arrived in Raheng, they will move far back on the railroads to recover, mayhaps all the way to Singers and all the population there.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert
The 1Es die like flies, as does the Dinah for whatever reason. The J1N1-S is very reliable and steady. Not spectacular, but it works. The best though is having a mix, as then the benefit of the fast climbers get a lot of planes early, and really numbers engaging work better than anything else.

I am so glad for your AAR, I was able to benefit from not falling into the Dinah NF trap or the single engine planes. Many thanks.[&o]

Unknown is how well the Myrt is -- but from some small usage in Downfall it is very good.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert
For whatever reason the combination of climb, speed, armament and maneuver at height really make the J2M5 a solid defender late. It is the best I used to take on sweeps, but I didn't get to the George N1K5, so it could be similar. I have a feeling from what I've heard though that it's better lower in the CAP as a bomber killer and in any offensive missions you still have capability to initiate. I'd keep Frank 'r' up high with the Jacks, and it and the Ki-83 are the sweepers.

Joc also mentioned that the Jack was the only fighter he feared.

Causing fear in the Allies is a good thing, as it will slow him down I think. This is another reason why I decided to up my production of Jack. Ideally, I think I would like to get it around 75 planes per month for the 2nd version, but it all depends on how long I can keep shipping oil from the SRA.

Here is hoping I survive long enough to get to the third Jack.

[Lowpe]

Looking forward in time...one of the unique AARs for the endgame is Captain Cruft's the Hive.

Pegu fell in October, Moulmein in Nov. of 1943.

He simply abandoned Tavoy, Raheng and Uttaradit I think in late Nov 43...by Aug of 44 he is fighting for Hong Kong, where he potentially had trapped the entire lead elements of the Commonwealth forces where he thought to surround and destroy them.

However, it was not to be. That experience and NJP's comments that it is very difficult to cut off and destroy Allied lead elements (speed, firepower, and bombers) in the end game have influenced my plans. It is better to force a unit to retreat where it will suffer extra damage than surround it and try to pummel it into surrendering (if you are short on time).

Hopefully, I can hold longer than Cruft at the Vinh line, and I am certainly holding longer here in Indochina, but the the potential for a disaster is large too, should the Allies get into the Indochina plains in strength...Katie bar the door![:D] It has happened several times so far in Burma, where I thought the end was night, but Allies never pursued aggressively. Let us hope that continues.

If, and these are big Ifs, I can take Chungking, that will allow for a large influx of troops to guard the Chinese borders, plus freeing up I think about 2 Divisions and 10 ART units (most 150mm). That will go a long way to securing Vinh and making it less likely for a disaster in Indochina.

Deliberate attack in Chungking today -- hopefully knock forts down to 2. I am getting there!

Meanwhile, I am busy fortifying the 'Hive' 20 hexes around the HI.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert
For whatever reason the combination of climb, speed, armament and maneuver at height really make the J2M5 a solid defender late. It is the best I used to take on sweeps, but I didn't get to the George N1K5, so it could be similar. I have a feeling from what I've heard though that it's better lower in the CAP as a bomber killer and in any offensive missions you still have capability to initiate. I'd keep Frank 'r' up high with the Jacks, and it and the Ki-83 are the sweepers.

Joc also mentioned that the Jack was the only fighter he feared.

Causing fear in the Allies is a good thing, as it will slow him down I think. This is another reason why I decided to up my production of Jack. Ideally, I think I would like to get it around 75 planes per month for the 2nd version, but it all depends on how long I can keep shipping oil from the SRA.

Here is hoping I survive long enough to get to the third Jack.

That's odd - do you mean he feared it on CAP? Because the George is a pretty fearsome sweeper at the very least... I'm still finding that P-47s and even P-38s are besting the Jack when it's on CAP, though.

Here's my issues with the Irving. Granted this is just one combat (the first one it saw, even!), but they have been very underwhelming thus far. Group averages are 55 Exp/69 Air/67 Defense, so the pilots aren't great but they are solid.

Maybe this is getting into op sec a bit, but it probably doesn't matter. I can't wait until I get the Nick so that I can combine 2 groups at one base. I've been underproducing the J1N1-S because it isn't serving me any better than regular fighters on night CAP. It's still about another 6 months before other NF models arrive... Nick and Judy first, and J1N1-Sa sometime in the spring, which I will produce because it will have to be the radar-equipped mainstay until the late war models arrive.

[Lowpe]

I watched several engagements with the Irving S too, and my fighters dived on the enemy bombers and then attacked from below when they actually started firing.

Now, the enemy bombers I attacked where around 8-10K.

Despite your having 80 percent on cap only 3 were airborne, and 7 more scrambled. Good looking morale and fatigue, nice leader, fatigue low.

I have noticed the Irving S runs out of ammo really quickly, and doesn't do well against 4Es, the only thing I can suggest is using better experienced pilots. I am using Tracom exclusively, and have only lost pilots to enemy daytime bombing runs, not a single one lost defending an airbase in A2A.

Or lower the percentage CAP, and fly them higher, around 15, 20K. That way they won't close and die, but still be present to disrupt the night bombing attack a little. I hope you have a lot of 20mm FLAK there!

I don't think Judy will do much for your with 2 rifle caliber machine guns.

[Lowpe]

This latest turn is the big attack at Chungking.

I am not doing much of anything else but moving troops, set up some ASW task forces.

Tomorrow, I will sweep in Burma again. Perhaps if I sweep enough, the Allies will have to use Jugs on CAP? I will tie it win some heavy bombardments at Port Blair.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I watched several engagements with the Irving S too, and my fighters dived on the enemy bombers and then attacked from below when they actually started firing.

Now, the enemy bombers I attacked where around 8-10K.

Despite your having 80 percent on cap only 3 were airborne, and 7 more scrambled. Good looking morale and fatigue, nice leader, fatigue low.

I have noticed the Irving S runs out of ammo really quickly, and doesn't do well against 4Es, the only thing I can suggest is using better experienced pilots. I am using Tracom exclusively, and have only lost pilots to enemy daytime bombing runs, not a single one lost defending an airbase in A2A.

Or lower the percentage CAP, and fly them higher, around 15, 20K. That way they won't close and die, but still be present to disrupt the night bombing attack a little. I hope you have a lot of 20mm FLAK there!

I don't think Judy will do much for your with 2 rifle caliber machine guns.

Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible [;)].

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible [;)].

Nope, no night escorts.

You never know, it might be surprising. But I am happy you will find out first hand and not me.!

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible [;)].

Nope, no night escorts.

You never know, it might be surprising. But I am happy you will find out first hand and not me.!

They are cheaper to make, so if I'm going for simple raid disruption, that might be fine. Definitely can't expect them to be shooting down any 4Es.

[JocMeister]

In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.

Might be the case from the Allied side, but NF pilots are credited with kills, so even those that appear as ops losses might be a result of NF engagements and be listed kills for NF pilots. Flak will almost certainly play a bigger part in DBB than it did in our game, but I think this is scenario 1 so very similar.

[Lowpe]

Some of the posts at the end of Obvert's AAR are really informative about NF kills. Despite flying a majority of Irvings, the Frances was the killer -- it was a pity that only one squadron flew for Obver if I recall correctly.

I think if Obvert would have gone whole hog into Frances it could have been a different night war...not to mention coming very late to the Army nightfighters.

I am hoping to force the Allies into a night campaign and really doing well. Of course, that just means he uses the B29 to bomb troops and the pace of his territorial acquisitions pick up speed. As Japan, it is very hard to win![:D]

[Lowpe]

Dec 15, 1943

No night bombing.

No forts destroyed at Chungking. Did destroy 200+ squads, and will attack again in 4-6 days. Destroyed 3 units.

I am going to move a squadron of Myojo there and try a divebombing attack with the next deliberate attack.

Normal heavy bombing in Indochina.

A sentai of Lilly IIc divebomb some PT boats at Cap Nicobar and miss. Forgot I had them on naval strike and the Oscar sentai with them didn't fly. Lucky there was no cap.

Today, I am sweeping and bombing Port Blair. I think I have enough Franks now to dedicate 2-3 squadrons to sweeping in Indochina, Andamans. Combined with airfield strikes, where vulnerable, I hope to keep destroying Allied planes.

Having multiple airfields on railroads make Indochina a great place to do hit and run sweeps and raids.

In my Army mix of fighters, I probably have too many Oscar IVs, and not enough Ki100i for base defence versus bombers. I am not sure it is even worth using the Oscar IV in the anti-bomber role. Versus sweep and escorting pretty good, but against bombers not so much.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.

Might be the case from the Allied side, but NF pilots are credited with kills, so even those that appear as ops losses might be a result of NF engagements and be listed kills for NF pilots. Flak will almost certainly play a bigger part in DBB than it did in our game, but I think this is scenario 1 so very similar.

I always assign the first real NF squadron the Allies get, the P70 to exclusive night CAP at a locale that is receiving regular night bombing. In 3-4 months the squadron typically has at least 15-20 kills.

I find that non-radar equipped fighters rarely get kills when assigned to night CAP, but real night fighters do.

The Beaufighter VIf comes in a bit later but has been nearly as effective as the P70s.

[Lowpe]

Hans,

There is a little difference between a B29 and Frances.[:D] I had hoped the Betty 3A with all the cannons could knock down some night fighters, but I haven't used night bombing a lot.

[Lowpe]

Dec 16, 1943

No night bombing.

What a thoroughly unpleasant surprise at Port Blair. Souped up Spitfires. There ought to be a law against them.[:D]

I end up losing a fair amount of Oscars, they were escorting Betties on a strike against PT boats of all things. At least one sentai of Georges swept first, and I downed a half dozen of the new Spits, plus some older ones, plus some other odds and ends. Bombers got thru to hit Port Blair's airfield a little, and destroyed on the ground and op damages added in some more losses for the Allies.

Have to look for greener pastures to kill Allied planes. Perhaps one of the many bases in Burma. Or, night bombing of Port Blair at 10K. I can do it once before he relocates some NF there.

Bombardment attack shows only 2700 AV of Chinese troops in Chungking versus my 4800. I may attack in a day or two again. I need that base!