Forge of Freedom vs Brother against Brother

[Radagy]

Hi,

I'm still uncertain on buying this game.
I had a pretty good time playing FoF when it was released, but it was a long time ago.
Now, watching some BaB AAR on Youtube, I have a strong feeling of deja vu.
Is it this game is a sort of FoF v. 2.0?
May be I got the wrong impression and I would appreciate any comment from anyone who tried both games.

[tgb]

BaB lacks the strategic gameplay of FoF. There's no campaign, and it's just a series of tactical battles. While it looks a bit like the maps in FoF, the combat is a lot deeper.

[Radagy]

Yes, I had this feeling. But is it deeper enough to let me forget that I'm playing a different game and not a FoF scenario?

[AlessandroD]

Hello Radagy, this is my first WCS game but I can say that is the best Gunpowder era tactical wargame ever played so far (do you know Jonh Tiller games? much better for me)

[bbmike]

The battles don't feel like the FoF ones for me. There is a lot more going on in BaB. One thing you may want to know is you do not target where your units fire like in FoF. You move your troops into place and the units 'decide' what to fire on. At first I was a little uncomfortable with this but did get used to it.

[Radagy]

Ah, that's a major solid difference, although it sounds a bit frustrating.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Radagy,

Have you looked at these yet?

tm.asp?m=3844058

If you enjoyed the tactical battles in FOF, IMHO BAB is 10x better but it is not a grand strategy game like FOF is, it's all about the tactical battles in the Civil War.

Regards,

- Erik

[Radagy]

Thanks Erik,
I have no doubts that BaB is better and more detailed than FoF and I was just trying to better focus the details.
I will have a closer look to the videos.

[Gil R.]

Radagy, the unit sprites are the same, which might account for the deja vu. (Well, that and that we use hexes.) But most of the code is new, and most of what isn't is modified. So while the similarities do exist, the differences are much greater.

Beyond that, I'll say no more and let those without a bias respond.

[Radagy]

I read pretty good things about this game, enough to buy it.
I will judge by myself how close it is to the original concept of FoF. [;)]

[ericbabe]

Other than an increase in historical detail, my main design goal was to focus on adding details to command-and-control and fog-of-war.

[RobearGWJ]

I bought this game because I liked the tactical fights in FoF and the Nappy game, but didn't like the economics (sorry Gil). But this goes well beyond the FoF tactical fights; it's definitely not that system ripped out. It's a fully featured game that is similar to, but better than, the equivalent John Tiller games. Go for it!

[Gil R.]

ORIGINAL: RobearGWJ

I bought this game because I liked the tactical fights in FoF and the Nappy game, but didn't like the economics (sorry Gil). But this goes well beyond the FoF tactical fights; it's definitely not that system ripped out. It's a fully featured game that is similar to, but better than, the equivalent John Tiller games. Go for it!

Thanks, much appreciated. And the economics was all Eric's idea and work, so no need to apologize to me! If you didn't like reading all those governors' bios in FOF, THEN you'd have to apologize to me.

[Radagy]

Hi, At last I bought the game a few days ago.
Very interesting and detailed game. I enjoy playing it, AI is challenging and PBEM is a big plus.
But... I find the UI absolutely outdated by today's standards and graphics reminds me games from late 90's. Even Gary Grisby's spartan graphic interfaces are far better than this one.
Summarizing my mixed feelings, I think this game could be a blockbuster in its niche, I don't regret my purchase, but IMHO it definitely needs a bit more polishing.

[zakblood]

you can polish a stone until it shines, but it's still a stone, a rock, pebble etc

game isn't about eye candy or looks, games about history and feelings, there 100, to 1000's of game which look way better, but play rubbish by most peoples standards, same as those who judge by size, a 50gb blue-ray game must be better than one that can fit on a old floppy, but it isn't and was never true, everyone has there thoughts and opinions on this, so nobody is right or wrong, but by judging a game by looks alone isn't really a method with any basis on facts.

i've never played Forge of Freedom either btw so can't comment on it, while some like the UI on this game, others don't, i myself find it very functional and easy to use, with everything easy to find and at hand with little use of the manual after a while of playing, but still go back every now and then if i'm not 100% sure of something, you mention Gary Grisby's so i'll comment on that, his games are very very good, and i have more than a few, but the learning curve and depth for me are way to hard for myself so never really got in to them as yet, i'm 50 in 2 years time and retired 15 years ago, so it's not a time issue either, it's a frame of mind, i like a game that i can pick up and understand and enjoy from day one, not something that i have to learn and grow in to, so if i don't get the fussy feeling of fun and basics plus a challenge in the first couple of plays, then it just sits on the hard drive for a year or so when more patches are out and i have again more time to spend on it, it's not to say it's a bad game, it's just that it's not for me at the time, but will pick it up and play again at a later date, same as more than a few tbh...

brother against brother never gave me that feeling, from day one i was more than happy, before it, i never really liked or play the time period, but now i'm hooked, and atm it's my most played game, with almost the most time spent on that any other i own, only Arhnem on the 48k spectrum had more and maybe a few role playing games, but war games, none come close

[Radagy]

Hi Zak,

If you read my post carefully, you will notice that I'm not judging by look alone. I'm just saying that this game, a very nice one, could be much better by today's standards.
As far as I can read this is a shared and not destructive criticism. I hope the authors will think about it and hear the feedback we are givng them.
As we buy a new car (not a cheap one, indeed) we have not to choose between a good engine or a nice chassis: we can hopefully get both.

[zakblood]

yes agreed, all feedback is welcomed and listen to, with regarding my posts, i get lost sometimes posting and replying and carried away with passion and also not the worlds greatest reader or listener either tbh, and regrading your post you was very positive in yout reply, far more than me in mine, so sorry for the mis understanding on my part, i'll try and do better, and glad you enjoy the game, will try FOF one day i'm sure

[GrumpyMel]

Actually now I'm kind of curious. I haven't picked up BaB, though I likely will at some point.... my gaming calender is pretty crowded these days..... but how are Forge of Freedom and Crown of Glory? I've always enjoyed games that had strategic and tactical levels in the same game, especially if the tactical side was a bit on the simple end of things. I really liked For Liberty, if any of you guys have played that one.

P.S. For me it wouldn't be an either or situation with those games and BaB....it would be a BOTH, as I like really detailed tactical games sometimes....which BaB clearly seems to fill that niche.... and other times I like games that are light tactical but have a good strategic layer.... just looking to see if there were any opinions on the quality of the older 2 games...thanks!

[Radagy]

What made FoF unique to me was the sum of tactical and strategic layers.
Zak, go try it. I'm sure you will enjoy playing FoF, still one of the best strategic games on ACW.

I tried For Liberty too, long ago, but it never hooked me.

[zakblood]

i will thanks, away for a week soon,so will grab it and take it with me and report back...

wouldn't mind the lot tbh,

tm.asp?m=3842936