Chinese planes

[jwolf]

In the early part of the campaign, the Chinese have some bombers and also a modest number of I15 and I16 fighters that I think are Russian imports (??) I've had some success with these -- one of my I15 pilots is even an ace, although he is now MIA -- but I am never able to replace any of these planes and as far as I know the pools are completely dry. Looking at the list of air reinforcements, I see that the Chinese will get some new squadrons much later on. But I would like to know if they ever get any new I15 or I16 planes, or if instead those squadrons will gradually wither away and cannot be reinforced.

[towtow59_MatrixForum]

They do not receive more Russian planes, but a few month after the game's start you will get American aircraft for these units, as they are available you may upgrade the air units to the American aircraft, possibly freeing up a few Russian imports for the squadrons that still use them.

[Jorge_Stanbury]

No more Russian planes; H81-A3 will be your friend for a long time;

you need to prioritize the replacement of American Volunteer Groups (Flying tigers) from H81-A3 to P-40s, because H81-A3 will go then into the Chinese aircraft pools.

Even with that, expect to be scrapping the barrel, using few inadequate planes (P-43s, P-66s) for most of the war

[HansBolter]

Later you will get small allotments of P66, P43 and P40E fighters. In August '43 you get a bigger influx of P40Ns.

You really don't want to hang onto the obsolete Russian bi-planes any longer than necessary.

[Bullwinkle58]

In my games if I'm flying Chinese planes inevitably there are forts somewhere I should have built instead.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You really don't want to hang onto the obsolete Russian bi-planes any longer than necessary.

But they are so cute. [:D]

OK I'll look into the advice above -- try to upgrade the AVG and then get their old planes into the Chinese pools.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You really don't want to hang onto the obsolete Russian bi-planes any longer than necessary.

But they are so cute. [:D]

OK I'll look into the advice above -- try to upgrade the AVG and then get their old planes into the Chinese pools.

This is a good reason not to be overly aggressive with the AVG before upgrading them to P40Es.

The more H81A3s you lose fighting aggressively with the AVG the fewer H81A3s left to use by the Chinese.

I give absolute priority to upgrading the AVG first before any other squadrons.

Not only for this reason, but because they are the best pilots in the Allied inventory at game start and deserve the best planes.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Not only for this reason, but because they are the best pilots in the Allied inventory at game start and deserve the best planes.

Papa Boyington! Right?

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Not only for this reason, but because they are the best pilots in the Allied inventory at game start and deserve the best planes.

Papa Boyington! Right?

Pappy is the best pilot in the American inventory at start.

He is almost always my leading game ace. In my current game he is the leader with 43 kills. Next highest has 28.

However, the rest of the pilots in the group are no slouches either.

[pelthunter]

I upgraded first the relatively plentiful P-40B groups and then used thus freed P-40Bs to re-equip the AVG elements. B models lasted until P-38F models came to use and then I swapped to those and began using AVG as antiship groups, new RAF/RAAF fighter units serving as interceptors/CAP.

Sounds silly perhaps, but with high aerial skills those P-38F equipped strafers punch thru enemy CAP and strafe the targets with relative ease.

(Currently Jap AI campaign, October 1942 and Jap fleets trying to land troops at Chittagong...)

[dr.hal]

This gets back to the age old question of whether or not the P-40B is better suited to the fighter role than the P-40E and thus should you equip the AVG with the B or E?

[pelthunter]

Humm I would think as AVG is at least early in campaign the major CAP force in that region P-40B would be "better" choice.

But if you like the "E" model what is stopping you.

[pelthunter]

Btw, My Boyington, 549 missions, 12 kills.

Top pilot being PO Norton, G., No 67 RAF, with 31 kills.

I am doing it wrongo.

[wdolson]

The H81-A3 was the export version of the P-40B, moving from one to the other is mostly a lateral move.

The P-40E has the 6X .50 calibers and armor. The P-40B is a bit more nimble because it is lighter, but it is more fragile in a fight. As an aside, I've never had Boyington as my top ace. Most of the time he's one of the first casualties.

Hans, are you playing with withdraw off? The AVG goes away before the P-38E is really available if it's on. When the AVG units withdraw, all those good pilots go into the pools and can be distributed to other squadrons. The 23rd FG is loaded with top talent when it arrives. In the real world the 23rd was formed when the AVG was disbanded and a number of the pilots transferred, though they all had options not to. Boyington famously went back to the Marines.

Bill

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

This gets back to the age old question of whether or not the P-40B is better suited to the fighter role than the P-40E and thus should you equip the AVG with the B or E?

I liked P-40Bs, but be very careful with AVG using it in China as they lack drop tanks and their transfer maximum range is only 14 hexes...
they can end stranded in China if there is a surprise invasion on Burma

[Malagant]

Morning Air attack on 36th Chinese Corps, at 87,45 , near Chengchow

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 40,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 21

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 17
Hawk 75M x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
I-15-III: 1 destroyed

Who needs P40s?!

[jwolf]

It must have been the Hawk 75M that did the trick. [:D]

That was a pretty lucky dogfight. I probably should have gone to Vegas with those dice rolls!

wdolson: yes the AVG will withdraw sometime in the middle of the year, before certain types of planes are available. But even if I make the "lateral trade" swapping H81-A3 for P40-B, that would at least allow the Chinese squadrons to use the leftover H81s, right?

[Jorge_Stanbury]

ORIGINAL: Malagant

Morning Air attack on 36th Chinese Corps, at 87,45 , near Chengchow

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 40,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 21

Allied aircraft
I-15-III x 17
Hawk 75M x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
I-15-III: 1 destroyed

Who needs P40s?!

[X(]I would check the Oscar squadron's pilot skill/ exp and leader qualities ASAP

[Shark7]

Those Hawk 75M are decent airframes as well. Export version of the P-36. Obsolete for sure, but what Chinese air frame in 1941 wasn't obsolete?

And really, your results with Chinese units will likely depend on what the Japanese side sends up to fight them. If its only Nates, you'll have some success. If the Japanese player sweeps with Zeros, not so much.

That's been my experience at least.

[jwolf]

Yeah so far Malagant's Zeros have been busy in more critical areas. If he ever really gets fed up with my Chinese fighters he'll bring in some Zeros and then the party will be over.