Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Wonder how many VPs it will net you? Hopefully enough to prolong the game for a month or two. [:)]

Well, it is like a 5,000 point swing or close to it for city itself. Then there is the production, hopefully not trashed, which will help for the rest of the game, or until the Allies request to be allowed a strategic bombing campaign in China.

In re-reading your AAR, in a few scant months it seems Allied AV can double in the Indochina campaign, at one point you massed 12K AV (argh!).

Sweeping with Oscars in Indochina, I have done this now and then, just hope for 1-1 (over my troops on the Moulmein/Raheng road.

Bombarding Great Nicobar, if Tavoy lasts another day I will fast transport in 72 AV of INA troops. Changed there leader, and boy do they really stink, but in tough terrain with forts they might do ok for a few days.

Expanded Jack, again, probably daily now for a while. Got a second squadron on Emily L up and running, size 18 so that could be 108 supply a turn dropped I think. Opens up some windows in the Pacific...

Shut down some Merchant factories, (300 or so) and some armaments (300 or so). Shipping more of everything everywhere!

[JocMeister]

Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI. [:)]

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops! [X(]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI. [:)]

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops! [X(]

I re-read your exploits from being stymied in Burma, thru the Tavoy invasion, and then the breakout into the central plains.

It is really scary reading! Your troops moved faster than Obvert though, and you brought more to the party than he thought. The combination was simply a killer.

I am one battle away from that happening I think. Or if the Allies get Raheng before my troops get there to reinforce heavily. I wouldn't put it past him air dropping troops again, but several of his parachute and chindits are tied up in the Andamans fighting.

Here is the 2nd Raiding Regiment slugging it out against a hodgepodge of Allied units including Marine Raiders and other paratroops.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI. [:)]

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops! [X(]

I re-read your exploits from being stymied in Burma, thru the Tavoy invasion, and then the breakout into the central plains.

It is really scary reading! Your troops moved faster than Obvert though, and you brought more to the party than he thought. The combination was simply a killer.

I am one battle away from that happening I think. Or if the Allies get Raheng before my troops get there to reinforce heavily. I wouldn't put it past him air dropping troops again, but several of his parachute and chindits are tied up in the Andamans fighting.

Here is the 2nd Raiding Regiment slugging it out against a hodgepodge of Allied units including Marine Raiders and other paratroops.

Key is allied armor. Only thing the Japanese have that can stop it is terrain and that is sometimes out of Japanese control. Uninterrupted you can move almost a hex a day. That is the true killer. Hard for the defending side to get into position in time once things get fluid. And even if you do get into position Allied armor is extremely sturdy. Don´t get fooled by the AV. 1000 Armored AV is simply beyond the Japanese ability to defeat.

Luckily for you it will probably be late 44 before he can amass that and by then you will have bigger things to worry about! [:D]

[Lowpe]

Thanks Joc, good advice as always.

Artillery and terrain seems the counter to Allied armor right now. I have most of the big boys against the Allies in Indochina (those pieces over 150mm). Chungking is full of 150mm artillery with good experience, and I am hoping I will get a chance to divert a lot of it to Thailand.

I have got a dozen of those rapid firing AT gun units of 18 47mm each, and several are in Thailand now, but there are several close by too. I think I will moves some more to Thailand. I like them for Island defense too, and several are on islands. I just got another, somewhere in Manchuko yesterday as a reinforcement. I will try to dump as many of these 47mm AT guys into Raheng, where the Allied tank army is coming to (out of the jungle). Perhaps if I can mass five or six of them they can do some good service.

Dropping a lot of troops off in Mindanao this turn, originally slated for Luzon, but Allied subs all around Luzon. So for now they go to Mindanao and then the ships can run back south for more troops. First stage of evacuation almost finished.

[Lowpe]

INA troops.

I have been using them as rear area guards, really not touched them. But that is about to change. I have given them better leadership, and will ship them off to the front lines -- especially in x3 terrain and hopefully against Allied infantry. They are some of the best anti-soft units in the game for Japan.

[mind_messing]

I decided to forget about the INA in front-line positions - they're too small to have much of an impact and any serious combat will quickly see them attrition down into nothing.

It would be nice if you could combine the Indian regiments to the 1st INA Division, even though that formation only existed on paper. Otherwise I just can't see them doing well in the long drawn out battles that you're going to see in Thailand.

[Lowpe]

I am sending one to Mergui, where forces are smaller, the other 3 to moulmein/Bangkok.

In good terrain, they will do okay, especially against the infantry horde against me on the Moulmeing/Bangkok road and at Mergui. Worry about their low morale from being bitten my bugs, though.

[Lowpe]

Jan 2, 1944

No night bombing.

Doing the unexpected, even for me! This air raid by Helen's caught me by surprise. I thought I had moved them back...should have since the Allies bombed their air base and bagged a dozen Helens and Oscars. Perhaps I can use that to my advantage, since he only swept with 25 Thunderbolts. If Pisanuloke get fixed again,I will attempt to pull a stunt, and set the stage for an overwhelming CAP with Tonies, Jacks and George.

[Lowpe]

What's for dinner....Chungking! Almost done.

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What's for dinner....Chungking! Almost done.

Whoa!

Damn I am going to hate this when El Lobo takes Cung King from me!

[JocMeister]

Nice attack on Chungking!

[obvert]

It'll fall the next time you can strike with full supply. Nice work there!

Very fun to get 100k+ POWs (and VPs) for your long campaign there. This will ease your mind a whole lot about the stuff going on the the South in Thailand. Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options. [:)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert
Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options. [:)]

But how much difference does it really make? I know you had some forces tied up in the North defending Chungking. But it wasn´t that much was it? I remember you having a couple of IDs there. But as far as I remember having those IDs in the south where the CW was attacking would probably not have made much difference.

Granted my memory is pretty hazy but I´m sure I even pulled a lot of forces from the area as they weren´t needed. I probably had somewhere around 8000 AV including 2000 armored AV. How much are the Jap forces in China?

[Lowpe]

Jan 3, 1943

No night bombing.

Allies bomb in Indochina/Thailand.

The INA troops are fast transported into Tavoy, they give the defenders they need to fight off the attack inflicting 10% losses on the Commonwealth, and prevent forts from going down. Some of the battered units in reserve recover some assault value. Unfortunately the POW and company show up at Port Blair...will he bombard?

The Myojo flies, no planes lost, and some small amount of flak is shot at the squadron. Bombers flying at 7K don't get shot at all.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: obvert
Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options. [:)]

But how much difference does it really make? I know you had some forces tied up in the North defending Chungking. But it wasn´t that much was it? I remember you having a couple of IDs there. But as far as I remember having those IDs in the south where the CW was attacking would probably not have made much difference.

Granted my memory is pretty hazy but I´m sure I even pulled a lot of forces from the area as they weren´t needed. I probably had somewhere around 8000 AV including 2000 armored AV. How much are the Jap forces in China?

I did have a garrison of about 4-5k AV near to the reserve zone in China to make sure no funny stuff happened with the million man army up there. [:)]

Altogether I think the combined Japanese forces in China start at 11-12k AV but slowly grow throughout the game. In late 43 the Chinese garrison troops expand and there is a big influx in 44 of IJA divisions and brigades. As the defenses of the islands around the HI is put in place some of these would naturally be bought out at half price before filling out to go to these bases.

I think one of the reasons you didn't need so many troops was also that the Chinese army started pushing once it had some supply. It was at least a big threat.

Having Chungking allows several things. Since I've got the whole central area in the Historiker game I can say the first things I'm doing are organizing the defense better and building forts. I've got specific plans for the mountains and coasts that are only allowed by having ALL of the Chinese Expiditionary Army to play with. The brigades can combine to divisions and the divisions can move around and build, get prepped for bases, get set into reserve locations, and I don't have the constraint of having to prepare for the Chinese Army to walk out of Chungking at some point.

It's a very big difference.

Also China is now supporting the forces there. I haven't thought of shipping supply in since Chungking fell and I seemingly don't need to. For Japan thats also huge. The HI is just an added bonus.

The other bonus that I wasn't worried about in our game is the VPs. Chungking is a haul, but Chengtu is not bad either, and the other bases have a bit too. Depending on how the game goes, those bases may stay in Japanese hands for the duration, whereas if you don't have Chungking you don't have those points and likely lose a lot more points in the rest of China too. Or the Allies have to plan to take them, diverting from other more direct approaches to the HI. That is massive as I see it now.

My two cents anyway, but we'll see how these different versions of this scenario pan out soon! [:)]

[obvert]

You'd do better leaving the in the city to recover and keeping their forts. Counter battery would be negligible if they have forts build, but if not it could cause more disruption.

At this point you could attack after a few days. It won't matter if there is still some disruption and fatigue gets to the 30s. It's going to fall. [:)]

[Lowpe]

Taking Chungking will be huge for me, Joc, can't stress it anymore than that....for all the reasons Obvert mentions, plus there is a HR no strategic bombing in China.

There is a lot of industry in Chungking! If I can get it.

I am not worried about counter battery fire at Chungking, there is none! I prefer moving the troops out, rest 2-3 days and move back in and attack with 2-3 fatigue. Then it is off to other things with most of those troops, especially the artillery.

Just sent my turn away, and hope to have several surprises for the Allies...perhaps one foolhardy attack, we shall see.[8|]

Plane building: still adding 1 factory a day of Jacks. Allies now recon north Luzon. Lousy long range planes.[:(]

[KenchiSulla]

Once the Chinese supply and forts are gone you might consider attacking with a smaller force (so you can keep a higher relative pace, increasing disruption and fatigue on the Chinese side). You wouldn't need to achieve 1:1 odds and it will still wear down the Chinese troops...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Once the Chinese supply and forts are gone you might consider attacking with a smaller force (so you can keep a higher relative pace, increasing disruption and fatigue on the Chinese side). You wouldn't need to achieve 1:1 odds and it will still wear down the Chinese troops...

Good advice, no wonder you are so darn good![&o]

But if I recover back to 6500AV with no disruption and fatigue in the 2s' I think I can get a 2-1 and put this city away. We are talking one week I think thanks to the big road.

Bombing and artillery are causing 1,000 casualties a day.[:)]