Game ignoring torpedo setting?

[castor troy]

Hi

Just started a new PBEM and directly run into a very disturbing incident. My opponent parks Force Z at Mersing which is attacked by roughly 70 Nells, all attacking with bombs. First thought, damn, my settings were wrong. I reload the turn looking at the two units and see the setting isn't bombs but torpedoes. Range Saigon to Mersing is 15 hexes, normal range for Nells. Saigon has an air HQ with torps, the torpedo setting is shown as yellow and not red. Yet all bombers attack with bombs.



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 48

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 18 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
15 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 8 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



my turn before the replay attached

[castor troy]

and here's the safe that triggers the replay

[KenchiSulla]

Did they have torpedoes in the unit before the supply phase? The unit might start with 0 torpedoes in the scenario you are playing and setting it to auto replenish would only have it replenish torpedoes in the supply phase of the game (after the air phase).... This is why I Always check manually if the critical groups have torpedoes (manually assign torpedoes to the air HQ, 20 each tick)

[KenchiSulla]

Manually add torpedoes by clicking on the Arrow near "0"... Your TOE change won't kick in until the next phase, and only if you set replacements to "on"

[wdolson]

Another issue, are they flying at extended range? If so they will carry a reduced bomb load.

Bill

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Did they have torpedoes in the unit before the supply phase? The unit might start with 0 torpedoes in the scenario you are playing and setting it to auto replenish would only have it replenish torpedoes in the supply phase of the game (after the air phase).... This is why I Always check manually if the critical groups have torpedoes (manually assign torpedoes to the air HQ, 20 each tick)

yes, before I ended the turn. The units showed the torpedo setting as yellow, added 60 torps to the air HQ. After the replay the air HQ added another 40 torps as I've set the TOE to 100 torps. But there were 60 to be spent during the attack and not a single one was used.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Another issue, are they flying at extended range? If so they will carry a reduced bomb load.

Bill

nope, normal range. Saigon -> Mersing 15 hexes which is the maximum at normal range for Nells.

[KenchiSulla]

I have seen bomb strikes mixed with torpedo strikes at extreme normal range before (even with sufficient torpedoes available), but never full bomb... It might have been a very unlucky dice roll

[MrKane]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

Hi

Just started a new PBEM and directly run into a very disturbing incident. My opponent parks Force Z at Mersing which is attacked by roughly 70 Nells, all attacking with bombs. First thought, damn, my settings were wrong. I reload the turn looking at the two units and see the setting isn't bombs but torpedoes. Range Saigon to Mersing is 15 hexes, normal range for Nells. Saigon has an air HQ with torps, the torpedo setting is shown as yellow and not red. Yet all bombers attack with bombs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 48

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 18 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
15 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 8 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



my turn before the replay attached

Well I did not order them to park at Mersing . They did this on they own. I was surprised either, Force Z at full speed without any interruptions made only 3 hex during 24h period of time.

[KenchiSulla]

Naval movement is just 12 hours for the allies on the first day...

[MrKane]

Even 12h, 3 hex is still little short for full speed.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: MrKane

Even 12h, 3 hex is still little short for full speed.

I´ve had that happen too although they were moving south. Cost me the entire Force... [:(]

[Lowpe]

You can get Force Z to disband in a port during the night using flank speed and going for Singkep or the base one hex away from Singers (name eludes me).

I like to have a minimum of more than two times the number of torpedoes to planes designated as using torpedoes as it seems anything less and the local commanders might use bombs instead.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: MrKane



Well I did not order them to park at Mersing . They did this on they own. I was surprised either, Force Z at full speed without any interruptions made only 3 hex during 24h period of time.

task forces not moving the expected distance pretty much happens every turn but that is not the issue of this thread, which is no bombers using torps even though there were five dozen torps available. Taking out Force Z on turn one or not is quite an issue as this pretty much leaves all of the DEI defenseless. I would notice but not really care if we were speaking about an attack on a xAKL.

[jcjordan]

Just a bad die roll??? The game mechanics has so many die rolls to pass to do something that it ends up failing to do anything. I think there's a check to use torps regardless of load setting based on exp so unit may have failed there [&:]

[michaelm75au]

Insufficient supply.
At the time of the strike being armed, there was a lack of supply present compared to required. I'm guessing as there seems to be plenty before that the TFs loading took a chunk of it.
--
I reran the turn with the TF set to only load troops in Saigon, and it then had supply for torpedo loading for the groups.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 19 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Bihoro Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 18 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Genzan Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

[jmalter]

An important consideration,

If you buy torps into an AirHQ, those are all one-shot, unless you also switch to the AirHQ's 'TOE' screen, set the torp level there, AND set it to Replacements ON.

As michaelm noted, TFs loading at your AirHQ's base may have loaded supply that could have provided torps for your airgroups.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Insufficient supply.
At the time of the strike being armed, there was a lack of supply present compared to required. I'm guessing as there seems to be plenty before that the TFs loading took a chunk of it.
--
I reran the turn with the TF set to only load troops in Saigon, and it then had supply for torpedo loading for the groups.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 19 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Bihoro Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 18 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Genzan Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

Hi michaelm

thanks for taking a look at it. But what gives loading torps into the air HQ? There is an air HQ with 60 torps, why would I need supply from the base? The 20k supply and lvl 5 base shouldn't be needed anyways if there is an air HQ with torps in range. [&:]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

An important consideration,

If you buy torps into an AirHQ, those are all one-shot, unless you also switch to the AirHQ's 'TOE' screen, set the torp level there, AND set it to Replacements ON.

As michaelm noted, TFs loading at your AirHQ's base may have loaded supply that could have provided torps for your airgroups.

the air HQ had torps before anything was loaded

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Insufficient supply.
At the time of the strike being armed, there was a lack of supply present compared to required. I'm guessing as there seems to be plenty before that the TFs loading took a chunk of it.
--
I reran the turn with the TF set to only load troops in Saigon, and it then had supply for torpedo loading for the groups.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 19 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 2
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Bihoro Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 18 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet (Genzan Ku K-1 / 22nd Air Flotilla)
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

Hi michaelm

thanks for taking a look at it. But what gives loading torps into the air HQ? There is an air HQ with 60 torps, why would I need supply from the base? The 20k supply and lvl 5 base shouldn't be needed anyways if there is an air HQ with torps in range. [&:]

Because to launch torpedoes it has always been necessary to have both torpedoes available in the relevant and within range HQ plus meet the supply threshold for the base itself.

It is referred to on page 166 of the manual. It is quantified by michaelm in this 2009 thread.

tm.asp?m=2215545&mpage=1&key=torpedo%2Ccost

Alfred