Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[JocMeister]

Arrgghhh, Just spent about 30 minutes writing a long post about China and the forum ate it!

A short summery. I understand securing China is absolutely golden for the Japanese. What I was trying to get a at was the fact that once the "real" allies (CW/Oz/US/Indian troops)get there no amount of Japanese AV will stop them. And most likely Japan will have bigger issues to worry about by then. [:)]

Not really a point but rather a reflection. The VPs you´ll gain from it will be pure gold.

[Lowpe]

Jan 4, 1944

Can't get over putting the 1944 there. I get a little smile each time.[:)]

No night bombing.

IJN destroyers catch a sub...

[Lowpe]

Allies bomb in Thailand, they are widening and making a big effort to keep all the airbases closed. I am not resisting, other than flak. But I have plans, muh ha ha!

Not a single Allied deliberate attack this turn, a first in quite a while. Allies send 150 AV of Chinese into Tavoy...and now there is a CVE or something like it at Port Blair and many ships. Uh, oh![:(]

Good weather, low forts, and Chungking defenders can't hide from the rain of death!

[Lowpe]

Just because I lost the KB, doesn't mean I am going to lay down. Here three fleet carriers and a CS strike at Marcus. I was hoping to get the tankers in port, but unfortunately the weather prevented the Judies from flying. Those boys are all disappointed, because they have been training for this job for the last month.

No enemy radar, so six minutes warning for the raid.[:)]

Now, what to do. He has solid detection on the carriers, but none on the CA/CLs/DDs hanging out to the east. But I fear that might be a Fletcher force of 7 destroyers at sea too, and the normal PT boat horde in port.



Absolutely amazing how important radar is at base defense.

[Lowpe]

Turn is away, and I of course ran away with my carriers. Their escort is a bit slim, but I am sending two groups into Marcus, one to clear and one to bombard. I now have a screen of 14 subs up on likely retreat paths for the ships in Marcus, or reinforcing groups that might come.

Also sweeping Cap Nicobar with a CL/DD force to kill more PT boats, and maybe snag some LCTs. Hopefully the POW doesn't show.

Boosted day and night search substantially.

There is now 4500 AV of IJA troops resting comfortably outside of Chungking. Chungking held with 1300 and hordes of Artillery and tanks. 2 more days to rest, 2 days to march and kapow!

Assembling a BB ship force at Phuket to bombard Mergui and hopefully take some starch out of the Allied attackers.

After much thinking, and crunching numbers, I bit the bullet to today and cancelled the large Tojo IIc factory. No more Tojo for me, although the pool + planes in service is close to 400. I moved that beast of a factory, c120 size, to ..... drum roll please...the Jack.[X(]

My thinking is that I will have plenty of Frank production, George is low until the final version comes along, so the Jack will get a boost from the 100 I was planning to 135 or so. Big expense, but I need the production for all the fighter squadrons that were once upon a time on carriers. This is probably my last major move in air production.

A side benefit it allows a Ha-35 factory to switch over to research the Toko rocket. Probably pointless, but it really is my focus now....

[KenchiSulla]

Looks like you've got Chungking. Any idea what you are going to do with freed up troops?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Looks like you've got Chungking. Any idea what you are going to do with freed up troops?

I think 1 full division is already bought out, most of the present artillery is as I purchased them from Manchuko back when I took the game over.

I will of course garrison the mountain passes into China.

The 150mm and larger artillery will go to fight the Allied tank army in Thailand, as will the bought out Infantry division. Then garrison the coast of China and the border with Vietnam, and new purchases will probably go to Formosa and the inner line around Okinawa.

If I have time some will go to Luzon. Probably won't though.[:)]

Oh, and there are about 45 chinese corps I have bypassed that need destroying. That will take a few clicks.

When I took over the game, I originally wasn't going to do much in China...I wanted the Changsha production triangle and then I was quite content to take up defensive positions and save supplies.

But the Allies always kept doing things in China. Nasty CAP traps, cutting my lines of supply, they just never left me alone, and one thing led to another and here I am at the gates of Chungking.

[Lowpe]

Some thoughts on fighting Allied armor:

[njp72]

Quite valuable thoughts and very useful which I will utilise.

I have never come up with a workable solution to allied armour. They are fast and so damn hard to kill.

Mind you I don't think I have come up with many solutions at all against the Allied juggernaut.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Some thoughts on fighting Allied armor:

[KenchiSulla]

I could use some anti-armor tips for my game... Are the 47mm ATGs able to destroy late war tanks?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

I could use some anti-armor tips for my game... Are the 47mm ATGs able to destroy late war tanks?

I guess they help, but they have such short range, and are relatively few in number, and can't bombard.

I believe you need any artillery over 150 mm. All of it is better than the 47 mm AT gun, better range, better effect, better penetration but lower accuracy. But not mortars.

Anyhow, it is very difficult to actually destroy the Allied tanks, you can get disablements, and then repeated bombing (if you can), but really bombardments will kill off disabled tanks. Or at least that is my belief which is why the 150mm Howitzer is so good.

In good defensive terrain, and perhaps a level of forts, Japanese armor seems to actually kill Allied armor at almost a 1-1 ratio of destroyed afvs. Of course, it could just be killing halftracks -- you never really know. But it is better than nothing.

[Lowpe]

Myojo:

I actually have three sets factories making this beauty. That is 90 planes a month. There are several training squadrons that can go Kamikaze with this plane...needing 1300 planes to do them all. I have 3-4 squadrons of them all ready (just normal db squadrons), but if I plan to use them in the kamikaze role I will need to raise production slightly.

However, will I last that long? Once the final Judy starts production, all Myojo will go to kamikaze role, but I won't have 1300 of them. A slight increase in Myojo's seem warranted.

Army:

I have 0 research in Army kamikazes. There is about 500 planes in training groups that can go kamikaze, but primarily single engine Army bombers (no production) or pay PP for 2Es. Right now PP are very scarce, but will that change late in the game, or should I stick to mostly Navy Kamkiaze's and use the Army to escort?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Myojo:

I actually have three sets factories making this beauty. That is 90 planes a month. There are several training squadrons that can go Kamikaze with this plane...needing 1300 planes to do them all. I have 3-4 squadrons of them all ready (just normal db squadrons), but if I plan to use them in the kamikaze role I will need to raise production slightly.

However, will I last that long? Once the final Judy starts production, all Myojo will go to kamikaze role, but I won't have 1300 of them. A slight increase in Myojo's seem warranted.

Army:

I have 0 research in Army kamikazes. There is about 500 planes in training groups that can go kamikaze, but primarily single engine Army bombers (no production) or pay PP for 2Es. Right now PP are very scarce, but will that change late in the game, or should I stick to mostly Navy Kamkiaze's and use the Army to escort?

My thinking is as follows:

Almost all the IJN strike planes are either dive bombers (Judy, Myojo) or torpedo bombers (Nell, Betty, Frances), or both (Grace). As such, they're too good at conventional strikes to merit being thrown away on kamikaze raids.

Why train one-shot kamikaze pilots when you can train NavT or NavB pilots who have the chance to fly more than one successful mission?

The IJA is a different beast altogether. By this point, bombing the Allies is a pretty rare occurrence thanks to all their flak, so that leaves you with a lot of free bomber squadrons with not very much to do. Some can do ASW, and you'll want a core of good squadrons to close airbases when you need them closed, but you can convert a fair few to kamikaze duty.

Using the Army to carry the bulk of the weight is good in that the IJA has a bigger pilot pool and plenty of spare squadrons for training. In addition, it also gives the IJA anti-shipping capability that hits harder than the Lily DB, at least until the Peggy T comes along.

Doing this will also let you combined kamikaze and conventional attacks - the IJN torpedo/dive bombers attacking in the traditional way, with IJA bombers in kamikaze configuration added mass to the strikes. If one doesn't get results, the other might.

As for the dedicated kamikaze planes, I'm not sold on the value of any of them other than the Ki-115 Tsurugi. It seems to me there are far better conventional planes than can be pressed into the role.

[Lowpe]

Jan 6, 1943

No night bombing.

Very active sub war today. American subs nail and sink an xAP carrying a construction engineer unit to Daito, a spare xAP fish them out of the water. My bad here as this convoy was not heavily escorted by SC, I thought I picked a neat route to get there.

Then a destroyer is nailed south of the Andamans, we punish the sub, but the destroyer is in bad shape. Moving heaven and earth to try and save her.

A Dutch sub tries for a shot at the surface raiders going to Cap Nicobar, misses, and the destroyers manage 5 glancing hits but enough to start a fire and damage forward torpedo tubes (how would we know that?).

Miri, left alone for a long time, a sub appears, dodges the minefields, nails an xak (who will live I think) and is then punished by a PB.

And finally, Subs off Mindanao take some shots, and an IJN destroyer manages to secure two direct hits on another.

So, Japanese ships ended up punishing 3 Yank subs and one Dutch.

[Lowpe]

This one hurts. 2 BB, 4CLs, 8 DD are now at Phuket, disbanded with no detection, but the Allies know they are in the area somewhere.

Plus, the destroyer is is dire shape. She needs to make 2 hexes, flood damage is critical, but system and engines are barely scratched. Moving several ships to try and save her.

[Lowpe]

The daring IJN Light Cruisers strike again....finding a minesweeper at Car Nicobar. The ships make good their escape and will now merge with the stricken Yukikaze to attempt some daring damage control.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
As for the dedicated kamikaze planes, I'm not sold on the value of any of them other than the Ki-115 Tsurugi. It seems to me there are far better conventional planes than can be pressed into the role.

You are not taking into account the upgrade tree for all the training squadrons. Very selective. Check it out and you will see.

I may be ok leaving the Myojo production where it is. The first Navy training squadrons start rolling in Feb, 45 and finish in lat May 45 I believe. That will give my Myjo factories, assuming they aren't burnt down and I have supplies another 540 planes for a total production of around 1700...maybe just a slight increase now.

[Lowpe]

I always hate this, at Marcus, my screening/sweeping ships designed to fight PT Boats doesn't close despite orders to, and the heavy cruiser goes in.

Touch and go for the first few rounds as the PT boats close to 3K before the IJN starts getting some distance....

[Lowpe]

Then a destroyer plows into a minefield...gone ship.

The bombardment is nice, and the ships escape safely. But my sub net comes up empty...overall a disappointing raid, victory points are a wash or slightly pro Japan, and it puts on notice the Allies I am not going to go quietly into the night.

[Lowpe]

The Allies bomb the Bangkok/Moulmein defenders with everything. I had been thinking of putting up a heavy LR CAP here, since yesterday he swept with only Corsairs, but in the end I swept with one Sentai of Oscars instead who killed off the Allied LR CAP of Hurricanes and Wildcats. Good choice as he swept with 4 Jugs squadrons, which is when I knew an attack was planned.

The deliberate attack came...and here is the full report. I think only the AA is out of ammunition.

The 2nd Guards is dug in at level 3, the other infantry level 2 and the 1st Tanks at 1. I lost 6 tanks: 4 Type 1 and 2 Type 95 Light tanks. I am hoping he lost several tanks too!

The 14th Divison is moving back in with 300 AV, but more importantly 24 10cm and 12 15cm guns and 22 more 47mm RF AT guns. Plus another Artillery unit is arriving with 16 10cm guns (not the best tank killers, but there is a lot of infantry here too).

The fresh heavy 4th ID is still in reserve, holding back on them in case the worst happens.

----------------




Ground combat at 55,58 (near Tavoy)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 78836 troops, 1285 guns, 1319 vehicles, Assault Value = 2900

Defending force 41857 troops, 655 guns, 850 vehicles, Assault Value = 1222

Allied adjusted assault: 491

Japanese adjusted defense: 1366

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)[&:]
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
495 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 22 (2 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Vehicles lost 45 (12 destroyed, 33 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
660 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 84 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 36 (1 destroyed, 35 disabled)
Vehicles lost 72 (12 destroyed, 60 disabled)[:)]

Assaulting units:
255th Armoured Brigade
17th Indian Division
6th Chinese Corps
11th (East African) Division
11th Indian Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
4th Marine Division
762nd Tank Battalion
5th Indian Division
6th Medium Regiment
8th Medium Regiment

Defending units:
1st Tank Division
1st Division
2nd Guards Division
55th Division
57th Field AA Battalion
25th Air Defense AA Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
55th Field AA Battalion
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th RF Gun Battalion
1st Ind. FA Bn /3