Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[Lowpe]

Thailand

Really balanced on the edge of a knife here. I have to abandon the position north of Uttaradit, as movement there is slow, slow.

I have Command prep HQ for both Uttaradit and Rahaeng. Rahaeng is under threat from the Allied Tank Army, to counter they will most likely have 4 Hvy ART (over 150cm), 1 Heavy ID with 43 squads, 4 RF AT 47mm Gun units, and perhaps a Tank Regiment or two. Not sure on that all behind level 4 forts.

Tavoy is the worry, as a cross country move there imperils everything. The heavy 4th ID is standing by, as well as other units.

My Army here really needs time off...I have units resting From Singers, to Bangkok, to Phnom Penh, to Pisanuloke (which need to rail back). Too many damaged units still at front moving back...

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
As for the dedicated kamikaze planes, I'm not sold on the value of any of them other than the Ki-115 Tsurugi. It seems to me there are far better conventional planes than can be pressed into the role.

You are not taking into account the upgrade tree for all the training squadrons. Very selective. Check it out and you will see.

I may be ok leaving the Myojo production where it is. The first Navy training squadrons start rolling in Feb, 45 and finish in lat May 45 I believe. That will give my Myjo factories, assuming they aren't burnt down and I have supplies another 540 planes for a total production of around 1700...maybe just a slight increase now.

It must be the differences between Scen 6 and Scen 1, Tracker only gives me two IJN squadrons that can use the Myojo at all, while most IJN training squadrons can switch between the IJN 2E bombers and a half-dozen or so can use the IJN single-engined strike aircraft. As I've said, I'd prefer both of those types making conventional attacks.

I hope to be using all my training squadrons for training anyways. Downfall has taught me the importance of a vast pool of combat ready pilots.

I'm just not sold on the Myojo. As a dive bomber or a kamikaze, the Grace or Judy are both much better options. As a kamikaze, bringing the Ki-115a forward would have been better. I understand that it may be one of the "inherited decisions" of your game, but it's a pretty crappy one.

I'm sure you'll find a use for them, however. The only good thing I will say for the plane is that it's got that 800kg monster-bomb as it's default load, so it should make a nice big hole.

[Lowpe]

I seem to have been doing a fair job in the air, lately, nibbling at the corners, but inflicting more losses than I receive. Basically, hit and run tactics, looking for older frames, etc.

Today I used an Oscar sweep from Vinh...no Oscar losses and we got 4 LRCAP fighters...Wildcats and Hurricanes. It would be nice if I could start whittling down the important planes the Jugs and Heavy bombers, but I have to be very selective there as they fly in huge masses.

Anyhow, cumulative Allied aircraft point losses are at 13.3K. Has to hurt somewhat, don't you think?



A steady bleed, I try and do something every day that will destroy Allied planes in a favorable ratio to my losses.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
As for the dedicated kamikaze planes, I'm not sold on the value of any of them other than the Ki-115 Tsurugi. It seems to me there are far better conventional planes than can be pressed into the role.

You are not taking into account the upgrade tree for all the training squadrons. Very selective. Check it out and you will see.

I may be ok leaving the Myojo production where it is. The first Navy training squadrons start rolling in Feb, 45 and finish in lat May 45 I believe. That will give my Myjo factories, assuming they aren't burnt down and I have supplies another 540 planes for a total production of around 1700...maybe just a slight increase now.

It must be the differences between Scen 6 and Scen 1, Tracker only gives me two IJN squadrons that can use the Myojo at all, while most IJN training squadrons can switch between the IJN 2E bombers and a half-dozen or so can use the IJN single-engined strike aircraft. As I've said, I'd prefer both of those types making conventional attacks.

I hope to be using all my training squadrons for training anyways. Downfall has taught me the importance of a vast pool of combat ready pilots.

I'm just not sold on the Myojo. As a dive bomber or a kamikaze, the Grace or Judy are both much better options. As a kamikaze, bringing the Ki-115a forward would have been better. I understand that it may be one of the "inherited decisions" of your game, but it's a pretty crappy one.

I'm sure you'll find a use for them, however. The only good thing I will say for the plane is that it's got that 800kg monster-bomb as it's default load, so it should make a nice big hole.

Tracker, for whatever reason, is not reliable in this particular. I went thru a huge panic early in this AAR, I almost switched out of the Myojo, because I saw the same report you did in Tracker. Thankfully, I never make plane changes quickly, and Spidery set me straight.[&o]

Every IJN divebomber group upgrades to the Myojo. Every IJN training squadron upgrades to the Myojo. Obvert is the expert here[&o], and it caught him totally by surprise in 45!

[Lowpe]

After one day of full rest...the artillery bombardment kills another 40 combat squads; the bombers fly and perform their grisly work. Raw Chinese AV dropping 40-50 points a day.



On the road outside of Chungking.

[Lowpe]

Kamikaze and Training groups (I stole this from Obvert's AAR - I have no shame!)

Thanks once again Obvert -- you deserve royalties.[:)]
---------

In order to effectively use the training units as kami groups you'll need better planes. Most of these groups don't upgrade to any F/DB/TB path for the IJN which is what I've built and have pools ready to use. Therefore the Myojo, the Toka and the FB types would need to fill these out if I were starting again. (I forgot to mention the FB earlier. Some are FB groups but I've been getting these to upgrade to the A6M8 or A7M2. Both have 2 x 250kg to 4 hexes and 2 x 100 kg to 5 hexes).

I had no experience with the training groups and didn't look ahead enough at upgrade paths. Also, I thought I'd be in a better position for supply and be able to expand the Tsurugi factories.

I just calculated and the training groups alone that I have now are approximately:

IJNAF

K5Y1 Willow/K11W1 Shiragaku - 1300 planes

Group size: 27 (2 x 36)

Upgrades to:

All 2E IJN bombers (with PP fee)
Kikka
D5Y1 Myojo
Toka
E16A1 Paul

Toka

So for these the Toka is really the only great option. The Myojo would also be decent, and because of it's path from the Val you could really build a pool of these. The 2E can work but it's more expensive in PPs and supply.

A6M2-K - 200 planes

Group size: 27

Upgrades to:

A6M7
A6M2 Sen Baku
Myoko

Some will take the A6M8, others I might be able to get there through the A6M7

IJAAF

Ki-9 Spruce/Ki-76 Stella/Ki-36 Ida - 500 planes

Group size: 10

Upgrades to:

All 2E IJA bombers (with PP fee)
All 1E IJA bombers

Ki-115 Tsurugi

So again the Tsurugi is your best bet, but I won't have that until 7-8/45 and not very many. So I've been going toward the 2E for a fee route. Some will fly Anns.

There are also a bunch of fighter groups at size 10 and these will definitely be Oscars or Ki-100.

[Lowpe]

I just loaded up Downfall to check on training groups there, and shocker![X(]

It costs PP to convert to FB or DB -- crossover costs, so much higher than converting to 2E bombers. Golly gee, I hope that is unique to Downfall and not in Scenario 6 or a lot of my Myojo's won't be flying in training groups as kamikazes -- the whole reason I made them![&:]

Obvert might not have moused over the Myojo since he had none. Uh, oh![:-]

[Lowpe]

Back to the here and now...sending the BB in at Mergui. I seem to get Mergui and Tavoy mixed up, but they are going to Mergui as a bombardment force to help the defenders there.

I flew another 20 plane Jake squadron in as night spotters, put a whole bunch of torpedo bombers on night attack, because I bet the POW or a Fletcher force shows up. I hate that.[:@]

I am protecting the BB force with 100 Tonies (15K and 5K for those lousy assault bombers). Port Blair how has 40 bombers and 130 fighters there and is getting threatening again. I was tempted to sweep with George there, but I held off, perhaps I can protect my troops tomorrow with a massive LRCAP on the Bangkok/Moulmein road.

I am running away to Ominato, after a feint towards Haha Jimi with my Marcus Island raiding force. My sweeping force, hesitated, and moved to within 4 hexes of Marcus. I despise their commander. Absolute/Direct and he doesn't go. He could at least stay 7-9 hexes away, but no...he moves in to be savaged by bombers. Luckily there were none, but my losses to this strange decision making has cost me two battleshps, and one CL and probably more.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


My thinking is as follows:

Almost all the IJN strike planes are either dive bombers (Judy, Myojo) or torpedo bombers (Nell, Betty, Frances), or both (Grace). As such, they're too good at conventional strikes to merit being thrown away on kamikaze raids.

Why train one-shot kamikaze pilots when you can train NavT or NavB pilots who have the chance to fly more than one successful mission?

The IJA is a different beast altogether. By this point, bombing the Allies is a pretty rare occurrence thanks to all their flak, so that leaves you with a lot of free bomber squadrons with not very much to do. Some can do ASW, and you'll want a core of good squadrons to close airbases when you need them closed, but you can convert a fair few to kamikaze duty.

Using the Army to carry the bulk of the weight is good in that the IJA has a bigger pilot pool and plenty of spare squadrons for training. In addition, it also gives the IJA anti-shipping capability that hits harder than the Lily DB, at least until the Peggy T comes along.

Doing this will also let you combined kamikaze and conventional attacks - the IJN torpedo/dive bombers attacking in the traditional way, with IJA bombers in kamikaze configuration added mass to the strikes. If one doesn't get results, the other might.

As for the dedicated kamikaze planes, I'm not sold on the value of any of them other than the Ki-115 Tsurugi. It seems to me there are far better conventional planes than can be pressed into the role.

I am following Pax Mondo's advice here, as nobody I know has as much end game experience as he does. He posits that the Navy is for kamikazes, and the Army escorts primarily with Franks. 2E are too expensive kamikazes, but if they are in the pool definitely use them. I guess he liked the Toka...can't remember, but he did say it was very, very hard to get kamikaze's to fly past 7 hexes (like an Oscar kamikaze). Long range strike important but hard to do...great if you can hit Naha for example.

Captain Cruft was not going to use Kamikazes at all, but then came 44 and he jumped right onto the kamikaze bandwagon. They are too effective to pass up.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I just loaded up Downfall to check on training groups there, and shocker![X(]

It costs PP to convert to FB or DB -- crossover costs, so much higher than converting to 2E bombers. Golly gee, I hope that is unique to Downfall and not in Scenario 6 or a lot of my Myojo's won't be flying in training groups as kamikazes -- the whole reason I made them![&:]

Obvert might not have moused over the Myojo since he had none. Uh, oh![:-]

You won't have much use for PPs by that time, so you'll probably be just fine paying the 250 or whatever it costs. Better than sending 150mph bi-planes out against Allied fleets. [:D]

[Lowpe]

Jan 7, 1944

No night bombing. Perhaps tomorrow.

Allies bomb, subs are quiet, Japan bides their time for tomorrow.

Mergui (which I always get mixed up with Tavoy) is bombarded, on 50 casualties but it probably saves the day for the defenders. Big airlift today to put in a fresh Naval Guard unit, and subs are dropping off supplies, and laying a minefield.

Tomorrow the troops re-assemble and march on Chungking.



See, I meant Mergui.[&:]

[Lowpe]

Jan 8, 1943

No night bombing.

I decided to pick on the Chinese at Kunming, 40-50 fighters. Not much in AA. Sweeps went in perfectly, Oscars first, Tony second and A6M5cs third and then a mix of 75 bombers hit the runways fairly low.

Lookee, and see we found Spitfires!

12 Oscars downed for 2 enemy fighters. But we had dive, we had numbers, we had worse planes.[:(]

[Lowpe]

Well, Tonies give it a crack, and according to the relay we both lose 3 planes.

[Lowpe]

And then Zeroes, and they drop 2 with no losses according to the replay.

[Lowpe]

We get 49 runway hits with Helens and Betties. Burn those Spitfires on the ground, but we only destroy one plane. Argh. After battle recon shows 40 planes still?[&:]

Oh well, still a 1-1 day basically, as the Allies bomb Pisanuloke with all of its 12cm guns.

[Lowpe]

No attack at Mergui, we fly in most of a Naval Guard unit, and the others manage to recover some assault value. He is starting to build up Tavoy which is a big threat...

Bobmardment attacks elsewhere.

==========

All the troops are marching back into Chungking, deliberate attack again in two more days.

Not sweeping or bombing Kunming. Okay, I take that back the Tonies are sweeping Kunming, but I don't really expect him to be there. Bombers all back on Chungking.

However, we are sweeping Tavoy and Port Blair with a lot. I fully expect spitfires on CAP at Tavoy so it is seeing a lot of George Sweeps, while George and Tony will sweep Port Blair.

Probably will be another extremely bloody day in the air...especially since I expect him to bomb some of my airfields I am basing from.

Nick D will enter production, the 4th and 5th Sentai's are standing to by convert over when the planes become available.

[Lowpe]

Its beginning to look a lot like a disaster, everywhere you look.[:)]



I have got the 94th ID (a light one) plus a Brigade in Hong Kong and Canton, so they will come over shortly, some mortars on the way to form up with other units to make regiments/brigades, and finally I will start buying some thing out to make the trip over from China.

[Lowpe]

Jan 9, 1944

Japanese night bombing: Helens bomb Cap Nicobar and damage a few assault bombers, and torpedo planes fly against some destroyers near Tavoy and miss.

During the AM phase, Tonies fly into heavy CAP at Port Blair, where are the Georges, and then we get 18 Betties against our old friend, but we miss...

[Lowpe]

Bad weather might be protecting the Prince, and the air war continues, a splinter of 8 Georges sweep Port Blair, 3 squadrons sweep Tavoy and there is no enemy fighters present, and here we have Oscars doing yeoman work.

Where, oh where are the rest of the strikes?

[Lowpe]

Oscar, let me count the ways I love thee! Actually, the Mustangs are tough for the Oscar to down...