Option 47

[CrusssDaddy]

Nothing needs to be coded, just unlock for paying customers the same ability to flip/unflip units that is already provided to beta testers and that existed 20 years ago in CWiF. It's that simple. Steve refuses to budge on this because perfection is his "elusive goal" and he's terrified of receiving more bug reports, and those are absolutely horsesh** reasons to sit on something that would create an enormously positive qualitative change for many of the most involved players of this broken game. He refuses to indulge the most sane, helpful and courteous little gift to people who have paid the exorbitant fee and stuck with this mess the entire time, and no one that matters calls him out on it.

His behavior is despicable, and the community is cowardly. Maybe you deserve each other?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Nothing needs to be coded, just unlock for paying customers the same ability to flip/unflip units that is already provided to beta testers and that existed 20 years ago in CWiF. It's that simple. Steve refuses to budge on this because perfection is his "elusive goal" and he's terrified of receiving more bug reports, and those are absolutely horsesh** reasons to sit on something that would create an enormously positive qualitative change for many of the most involved players of this broken game. He refuses to indulge the most sane, helpful and courteous little gift to people who have paid the exorbitant fee and stuck with this mess the entire time, and no one that matters calls him out on it.

His behavior is despicable, and the community is cowardly. Maybe you deserve each other?

Crussdaddy, what exactly do you want Steve to do and I will personally ask him to do it if it is for the benefit of all players, I am sure he reads all the posts but give me an outline what you think the players need and again I will ask him, I am getting ready for another of my so called posts on the beta forums asking a few other things from Steve and I will be glad to add your opinion and request.

Do not stand alone crussdaddy it would help if you had some backing among the general public.

Bo

[rkr1958]

I'm not ashamed to admit this but I just love this game and the global war scenario. I love the scale. I love the detail. I love the realism. A game of this magnitude didn't, and still doesn't, come easy. I had to put in the time and effort to learn it. I have to continue to put in the time and effort to learn it better.

Now with respect to option 47, if that option was so critical for me that I could't play the game without it, I'm 100% confident that I could figure out a way to implement its intended effects through house rules, offline die rolls and set (on-line) die rolls to achieve the intended result. For goodness sake how often do situations relevant to option 47 occur? Handling them in this manner until option 47 is fully implemented in WMiF doesn't seem that much of a burden to me. Am I missing something?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I'm not ashamed to admit this but I just love this game and the global war scenario. I love the scale. I love the detail. I love the realism. A game of this magnitude didn't, and still doesn't, come easy. I had to put in the time and effort to learn it. I have to continue to put in the time and effort to learn it better.

Now with respect to option 47, if that option was so critical for me that I could't play the game without it, I'm 100% confident that I could figure out a way to implement its intended effects through house rules, offline die rolls and set (on-line) die rolls to achieve the intended result. For goodness sake how often do situations relevant to option 47 occur? Handling them in this manner until option 47 is fully implemented in WMiF doesn't seem that much of a burden to me. Am I missing something?

rkr I could be wrong but I do not think crussdaddy is referring to just option 47 but to all possible roadblocks in the game that could be helped by a beta tester tool until the game stands on it's on, just guessing.

Bo

[CrusssDaddy]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Nothing needs to be coded, just unlock for paying customers the same ability to flip/unflip units that is already provided to beta testers and that existed 20 years ago in CWiF. It's that simple. Steve refuses to budge on this because perfection is his "elusive goal" and he's terrified of receiving more bug reports, and those are absolutely horsesh** reasons to sit on something that would create an enormously positive qualitative change for many of the most involved players of this broken game. He refuses to indulge the most sane, helpful and courteous little gift to people who have paid the exorbitant fee and stuck with this mess the entire time, and no one that matters calls him out on it.

His behavior is despicable, and the community is cowardly. Maybe you deserve each other?

Crussdaddy, what exactly do you want Steve to do and I will personally ask him to do it if it is for the benefit of all players, I am sure he reads all the posts but give me an outline what you think the players need and again I will ask him, I am getting ready for another of my so called posts on the beta forums asking a few other things from Steve and I will be glad to add your opinion and request.

Do not stand alone crussdaddy it would help if you had some backing among the general public.

Bo

I'm not certain how to respond to this constructively. Did you read what I said, or did you attempt to absorb the meaning of the words by rubbing your head against the screen? Can you have a helper read it to you?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Nothing needs to be coded, just unlock for paying customers the same ability to flip/unflip units that is already provided to beta testers and that existed 20 years ago in CWiF. It's that simple. Steve refuses to budge on this because perfection is his "elusive goal" and he's terrified of receiving more bug reports, and those are absolutely horsesh** reasons to sit on something that would create an enormously positive qualitative change for many of the most involved players of this broken game. He refuses to indulge the most sane, helpful and courteous little gift to people who have paid the exorbitant fee and stuck with this mess the entire time, and no one that matters calls him out on it.

His behavior is despicable, and the community is cowardly. Maybe you deserve each other?

Crussdaddy, what exactly do you want Steve to do and I will personally ask him to do it if it is for the benefit of all players, I am sure he reads all the posts but give me an outline what you think the players need and again I will ask him, I am getting ready for another of my so called posts on the beta forums asking a few other things from Steve and I will be glad to add your opinion and request.

Do not stand alone crussdaddy it would help if you had some backing among the general public.

Bo

I'm not certain how to respond to this constructively. Did you read what I said, or did you attempt to absorb the meaning of the words by rubbing your head against the screen? Can you have a helper read it to you?

I do like I always do I rub my head against the screen hoping for some meaning to come out on posts I do not understand, I could use some helpers with this, gee maybe Steve could explain to me your concerns that is if you have purchased the game. [;)]

Bo

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Nothing needs to be coded, just unlock for paying customers the same ability to flip/unflip units that is already provided to beta testers and that existed 20 years ago in CWiF. It's that simple. Steve refuses to budge on this because perfection is his "elusive goal" and he's terrified of receiving more bug reports, and those are absolutely horsesh** reasons to sit on something that would create an enormously positive qualitative change for many of the most involved players of this broken game. He refuses to indulge the most sane, helpful and courteous little gift to people who have paid the exorbitant fee and stuck with this mess the entire time, and no one that matters calls him out on it.

His behavior is despicable, and the community is cowardly. Maybe you deserve each other?

warspite1

Steve has given his reasons why he does not think adding such a tool is sensible. I for one have no idea whether the positives of such a tool outweigh the negatives, but am prepared to listen to, and accept, Steve's reasoning.

Maybe the fact is that "those that matter" - presumably you mean Matrix and possibly ADG - agree with his reasoning and thus do not "call him out on it".

Being a mass murderer is despicable, choosing not to release a de-bug tool for (what the programmer believes are good) reasons and that have been explained repeatedly is, if you sit on the opposite side of the argument to Steve, unwelcome, but hardly mean that his behaviour is "despicable". Get some sense of proportion for goodness sake.

"The community is cowardly". Maybe or - shock, horror - maybe the "community" simply agrees with Steve's view point that the addition of such a tool will create more problems than it will solve. In other words, being "cowardly" has nothing to do with it.

BTW, that was a despicable, cowardly and unpleasant response to bo - but so typical of you. Well done. [8|]

[CrusssDaddy]

What I mean by the people that matter is the active players within this community, who pi** and moan on this board and then offer no challenge when Steve pops in to explain why it's his way or the highway for his golden years hobbyist project that is being disingenuously marketed as a sales-worthy product for grown-ups. Matrix care? You must be kidding. ADG? If they think either of the division-scale or quick-play versions of tabletop WiF are a good idea, their very sanity is in question.

But after a decade and with the current state of affairs the result, isn't it time to review the default stance of, "Steve's got the benefit of all doubt?" Is there no outcome that causes you to engage with a more critical eye? It is absurd to believe that providing paying customers with the same debug tools provided the beta testers, or even just the unit flip/unflip toggle, would somehow damage the "development" of this game. Quite the contrary, it would substantively accelerate it by crowd-sourcing advancement to a new and motivated population perhaps energized by not being ignored for once. But that is not what Steve wants because he regards this as his private little train set in his basement, and no one tells him how to arrange the cars or the scenery. And it will continue that way unless the community mounts a challenge, which it appears too timid to do (led of course by your own shutters-closed example).

[warspite1]

From that comment you continue to believe - despite what has been said by myself and by bo and Centuur in particular, and on many occasions - that there has never been any discussion or heated debate with the "powers that be" over some aspects of the project.

Let me make quite clear: that is simply not the case and it completely baffles me that you and others continue to bleat out the same mantra - that the beta testers are all perfectly happy with the situation. Why? Why would we be? I have had AAR's that came to an end because of bugs, I have had games spoilt by bugs that - even if they did not end the game - their presence is a real downer. So why would you suggest I would be happy?

But at the end of the day, I and other beta testers do not have our money on the line here. The stakeholders - be it ADG or Matrix or Steve - they are the ones with cash and/or reputation on the line. It is THEIR show and we can only do so much.

If Steve and or Matrix walk away from this project that is it - THE.END, FINIS, goodnight Vienna. Is that what you want?

[CrusssDaddy]

The heat from your debates couldn't scorch a tissue and you exert more effort in defense of your half-hearted advocacy than in actually asserting yourself meaningfully against a broken process. The end of what? A debacle? Don't worry, if they split I'll send you CWiF and you can actually play through an entire game.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

The heat from your debates couldn't scorch a tissue and you exert more effort in defense of your half-hearted advocacy than in actually asserting yourself meaningfully against a broken process. The end of what? A debacle? Don't worry, if they split I'll send you CWiF and you can actually play through an entire game.

warspite1

You are of course, right as ever on all counts. Did I ever tell you you're my hero?

[Orm]

Right. This was enlightening and entertaining. Educational even.

Option 47 is very important to many and less important to others. And the first group want option 47 as soon as possible and the second group want it as soon as it is practical. So why getting nasty about it?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Right. This was enlightening and entertaining. Educational even.

Option 47 is very important to many and less important to others. And the first group want option 47 as soon as possible and the second group want it as soon as it is practical. So why getting nasty about it?

warspite1

Is that a rhetorical question?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

The heat from your debates couldn't scorch a tissue and you exert more effort in defense of your half-hearted advocacy than in actually asserting yourself meaningfully against a broken process. The end of what? A debacle? Don't worry, if they split I'll send you CWiF and you can actually play through an entire game.

Now you did it cruss I respected you until you brought up CWIF, I happen to have that farce, ever hear of supply, I have since removed it from my computer as being a virus [:-]

Warspite mentioned internal battles of different opinions inside the beta section, I know you won't believe this but some got a little nasty or very testy whatever but Steve and Erik heard us loud and clear how we felt about the progress and the direction of the game.

But in the long run cruss it is their money and their reputation that is on the line not ours [well you seem to think is is ours[:(]] and their decisions are theirs alone, this will be on them as to what the general war game community will think of Matrix, Steve, and Erik in the future.

Bo

[CrusssDaddy]

I don't care what Tom Brokaw says, I think you guys are the Greatest Generation.

[warspite1]

Thank-you sir! I think you are right.

And I don't care what Eminem says:

'Cause I'm Slim Shady, yes I'm the real Shady
All you other Slim Shadys are just imitating
So won't the real Slim Shady please stand up,
Please stand up, please stand up?

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

I don't care what Tom Brokaw says, I think you guys are the Greatest Generation.

I don't care what Brokaw thinks the only thing he cares about is getting that liberal idiot back on as the lead liar at NBC.

Bo

[warspite1]

More to the point.... who the hell is Tom Brokaw?

[Orm]

He is an American, of course.

[warspite1]

Well yes but......