Airbase elements

[s2tanker]

Airbase elements appear to have a difficult time coming up to strength for the Allies in landing areas vs. what I recall seeing in the past. I've had airbases in Italy, supplied by beachheads, that aren't even adjacent to the enemy where the TOE remains at 0%. I've even manually set the TOE at 100% and no elements arrive to maintain the aircraft based there. Is this supposed to be the case?

[Helpless]

What is the version you play? Iirc, there was related issue addressed in one of the patches.

[Seminole]

I've had airbases in Italy, supplied by beachheads, that aren't even adjacent to the enemy where the TOE remains at 0%. I've even manually set the TOE at 100% and no elements arrive to maintain the aircraft based there. Is this supposed to be the case?

Is this in our server game?

If so, your beachheads have been cut off since they landed by Luftwaffe naval interdiction. Without freight coming in there is no source of replacements to bring up the airbase TOE.

Your units will not show as isolated if they can trace supply to a temporary port because a temporary port is considered a national supply source for the purposes of determining a unit's isolation status (but it is not in and of itself a fount of supplies).
This is in one of the patch logs.

I've starved all three of the landings you've made on the mainland as you've relied on automatic naval patrols, and without the Sicilian bases that doesn't range far enough to help you.

[s2tanker]

Great. Appears to be a change.

Although, it would seem that a commander should be able to change priority so that air support personnel and equipment took priority over tanks and infantry at the landing.

Air supply is also not working. I can't make my cargo aircraft ship in freight, even at night, even to units in Sicily far from your air interdiction. That issue seems busted now as well. (And, I am toggling between unit and freight.) It seems absolutely insane that the Allies, with hundreds of cargo aircraft, would allow them to sit idle when they have Foggia and the surrounding airfields in hand. Cargo aircraft would be able to land on the airstrips (even roads), drop off cargo, and leave. Heck, even the Luftwaffe supplied a far larger force by air against greater air odds at Stalingrad for three months. A C-47 has an unrefueled range of 1,600 miles. It's about 550 miles from the airbases in Tunisia to the airbases in Foggia. Why the Allies can't augment the supply situation there, even with night flights, is a mystery.

[soeren01]

Do the airbases your Transports are staioned ( and the depots nearby ) have enough freight/supply ? If here is notihing on the airbase, your planes have notung to transport.

[Seminole]

Great. Appears to be a change.

To clarify, this change was a benefit to the Allies. This way you don't deal with the penalties of isolation effects at your beachhead even if the Axis cut off your supplies via naval interdiction.

Although, it would seem that a commander should be able to change priority so that air support personnel and equipment took priority over tanks and infantry at the landing.

You control which on map units are moved where during your movement phase (getting infantry and tanks onto the beaches). The AI handles moving supply during the Allied logistics phase, which takes place when the Axis player's turn concludes. A naval interdiction differential of 2 will cut off the flow of supplies during the logistics phase. So if I send planes to patrol off your temporary ports near Salerno and get the Axis naval interdiction hex value 2+ higher than you do (which I have because you haven't created naval patrol directives, you've just relied on auto naval patrols and they can't reach that far from your existing air bases) then no supplies come in over the beaches.
No freight in the depots means no supplies on which to draw replacements - for the on map units in the beachhead as well as any TOE needs of airbases in the beachhead.

Have you looked at your beachhead depots to see how supplies are (not) flowing through them?

Another caveat to the air base air support TOE% issue: In another thread I started on this topic Pavel mentioned that the replacement routine for air bases is separate from that of other ground units. One of the criteria in this routine is that there is sufficient manpower in the relevant country's manpower pool to meet the need. So if you set TOE% to 100%, but the airbase is British owned, and the British manpower pool only has enough to supply men for 90% of Air Support TOE then the airbase gets NONE that turn.
To help grease the skids on this replacement routine the manual suggests putting the TOE at 55% for a few turns, but because of the threshold issue brought to light by Pavel I usually start it lower, at like 25%, or just put a few little squadrons in there like Spits that even on Auto won't make a huge request, and step it up each week (50%, 75%, then Auto after I cram in air groups).
The airbase nationality/manpower pool thing is key. It was what confused me because I could see plenty of Air Support squads in the respective production pools, but didn't realize the British manpower was a bottleneck (particularly in the extra production limits of a scenario like Battleground Italy).

6.3.5. Air Base Unit Capture
When an air base unit is captured, the new friendly air base unit will choose its HQ attachment based on the following priority order 1) if captured due to combat, the Air Command providing ground support to the HQ in charge of the ground combat 2) The Air Command in charge of the closest air base unit with the same nationality 3) The closest Air Command HQ unit.

8.3.4.1. Air Base Unit Nationality Switch
If an in-supply air base unit contains no air groups, and the TOE of the air base unit is set to Auto, then in the logistics phase the air base unit will change to match the nationality of the air HQ unit that the air base unit is attached.

Air supply is also not working. I can't make my cargo aircraft ship in freight, even at night, even to units in Sicily far from your air interdiction. That issue seems busted now as well. (And, I am toggling between unit and freight.) It seems absolutely insane that the Allies, with hundreds of cargo aircraft, would allow them to sit idle when they have Foggia and the surrounding airfields in hand. Cargo aircraft would be able to land on the airstrips (even roads), drop off cargo, and leave. Heck, even the Luftwaffe supplied a far larger force by air against greater air odds at Stalingrad for three months. A C-47 has an unrefueled range of 1,600 miles. It's about 550 miles from the airbases in Tunisia to the airbases in Foggia. Why the Allies can't augment the supply situation there, even with night flights, is a mystery.

You made a bunch of air supply flights to the 8th Army around Foggia this turn, did you find out what was causing the problem? Did you have a discrepancy between the day/night setting in the mission and on the air groups?
My air intercepts are entirely automatic from aircraft stationed in the area (and were kind of disappointing against unescorted transports), I'm not running any air supremacy directives at this time.

[s2tanker]

Air supply is periodic. Sometimes it works, usually, it doesn't. I'll change from day to night and back to day again on the freight setting. The issue appears to be available supply at the airfields in Tunisia. So, even though I've set the airbase supply at 3 or 4, this appears to be irrelevant as to the actual supply level on the base. I've built depots on the airbases that can host them. We'll see if that changes the cargo aircraft supply issue.

[Seminole]

Air supply is periodic. Sometimes it works, usually, it doesn't.

I've experienced the same thing, and because there are so many criteria it can be a pain sorting out which one is missing.
The Air Directives interface is really good at telling you what is available and why it isn't available.
The air supply and air drop routines really need something similar to the Air Directive interface so you can find out in advance if you planes stationed at Base A can reach drop zone B with unit/freight C.

In trying to think of a reason why it is happening intermittently - how are you trying to execute the air freight mission?

There are two methods for the player to
conduct air transport freight missions. In either case,
the player first has the option of selecting a specific
staging base for the mission by selecting a hex with
an air base unit. If the player does not select a staging
base, the computer will automatically assign one for
the mission.

Is the AI picking staging bases that put you out of target range?
I presume the freight is carried from the originating air base, and not the staging base (we discussed in another thread if staging bases mattered for supplies, or were just navigation collection points. I don't recall a dev commenting, but assumption was they were just navigation collection points).

[barkhorn45]

I recall a thread(can't find it now)about airbases not getting anti-aircraft element's.
I am having that problem,none of the airbases in sicily are receiving them.
All the airbases in Africa are equipped with them.

[s2tanker]

I'll try selecting the airbases now -- though they all appear to be within range as I even test for freight missions with units close by and... nothing. My attempt to build depots to boost the supply came to naught as well. All the depots I created the previous turn with a supply priority of 3 saw no net change in their supply status. It appears to be that no supply is moving into the airbases in Tunisia where my cargo aircraft are stationed. This appears to render the aircraft useless for air supply purposes.

[Helpless]

Do you have a save to check?

[Seminole]

Seminole v S2_Tanker on the server.
I've opened the turn, but haven't saved.

[Helpless]

Downloaded. Will take a look.

[Joel Billings]

As for the air transports, I downloaded the last 2 saves in your game and tried to do some air transport. I found that if I set air transport freight (2 clicks on F9) and then set on night mission and then clicked on an airbase for the stage base, I could get missions to fly. The most controlled method is to shift-right click on the target after setting the stage base. Now the way things work is that the aircraft will load up freight at the airbase they're at. They'll draw it from the nearest depot and if that's more than 1 hex away for Allies that means they have to have available trucks. If you set up a mission and nothing flies, then you should now be getting messages telling you there is a lack of freight (this was added a few versions ago). Best to either use as a stage base the base containing the aircraft, or one that is generally on the way to the target from where you have your transports. Because this routine uses quite a bit of old WitE code, you can actually extend the range of your transports by picking a stage base on the way to the target (there is a limit of how far it can be from the transports home AF, but I'm not sure what that is). I was able to pick stage bases near Tunis and fly goods to your depots in Italy. If I don't use shift-right click, I got some missions to fly, but they seem to be one group missions. If I don't pick the stage base, it gets even less reliable and some bombers ended up flying instead of transports. Also, after some missions, I couldn't pick another stage base on the map without clicking on F9 again (in which case I had to do it twice and reset to night). So here's what I learned:

1) You should always select the stage base for your air transports. Best if it's somewhere between your transports and the target (especially if you want groups for different areas to fly, pick a point that is equidistant from most or all of them).
2) Freight is needed near the transports, so best to have them in or next to a depot.
3) You have more control if you shift-right click on the target after picking the stage base, and then select the air groups for the mission. If you are just trying to max effort into a key depot then you can use the Multiple Sorties option and set up one big shift right click mission and it will fly repeated missions. Useful for sending supplies to a beachhead that really needs them.
4) In some cases you won't be able to change the stage base after a mission is flown so you have to repress F9 to gain that capability back.


Hope that helps.