Convoy Points - still forced to RTB

[joshuamnave]

This problem has grown worse, not better, with the latest patch. And promises of fixes to the contrary, we still can't reset the sentry status during the RTB phase - which would just be a work around anyway to fix a problem that used to be rare and is now a plague.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

This problem has grown worse, not better, with the latest patch. And promises of fixes to the contrary, we still can't reset the sentry status during the RTB phase - which would just be a work around anyway to fix a problem that used to be rare and is now a plague.

I think I have all those problems solved - but I am using version 1.4.0.5 now.

What version are you running and do you have a saved game with these problems? I could then test my current version to make sure they have been fixed.

---

I spent a couple days last week running through saved games from months ago testing to see if the reported bugs still exist. Almost all of those I tested had been fixed. Most of the bugs were related to Air Operations. There were a couple where the saved games were damaged (e.g., carrier air units shown as on their carriers but list in the Units form as "Setting Up").

So it would be best if I could run your saved game(s) and find out exactly what is occurring therein.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

This problem has grown worse, not better, with the latest patch. And promises of fixes to the contrary, we still can't reset the sentry status during the RTB phase - which would just be a work around anyway to fix a problem that used to be rare and is now a plague.

Oh, and the reason that changing sentry status is not permitted in the RTB phase is because that would give players the ability to 'cheat'. Units on Sentry are marked as Staying at Sea in those phases. If you could change them in the RTB phase, then you would be able to override their previous setting and return them to base - even though they had been marked as staying at sea earlier.

EDIT: And vice-a-verse for those marked as returning to base being set to Sentry in the RTB phase.

[joshuamnave]

Using the most recent beta version available to the general public. This save is from the stay at sea phase. Note that the two Japanese CP's in the Sea of Japan are shown as being on sentry. Advance through to the RTB phase, they are no longer on sentry and must return to base.

If, during the stay at sea phase, you were to un sentry them and then put them back on sentry, everything works fine. But it took me several reloads to hit upon that as a possible solution.

In this game, there have been at least 4 turns where cp's on sentry mode were forced to return to base. The other times the cp's weren't immediately relevant, mostly cp's being sent in anticipation of needing supply in future turns. In this instance, rtb'ing those cp's would cause the Japanese to be in violation of their trade agreements with the US and suffer the penalties.

[joshuamnave]

Oh, and since I'm going through the hassle of zipping and uploading saves tonight apparently, take a look at the German garrison in Konnigsberg in this game.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Oh, and since I'm going through the hassle of zipping and uploading saves tonight apparently, take a look at the German garrison in Konnigsberg in this game.

Any chance of telling how you've managed to do this? I haven't got a clue...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Oh, and since I'm going through the hassle of zipping and uploading saves tonight apparently, take a look at the German garrison in Konnigsberg in this game.

Yes, how you were able to achieve this is a mystery. Perhaps by returning the two naval units with cargo to the port simultaneously? The program should warn you that the port would be overstacked and let you move the units into the port if you disregard the warning. But it should have required you to destroy one of the land units at the end of the naval movement phase - I am pretty sure that overstacking is checked then.

But the program does detects the overstacking at the end of the Land Movement phase and requires that it be corrected. So it doesn't seem to be a fatal bug. You could simply correct it during the land movement phase without having to destroy any units.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Using the most recent beta version available to the general public. This save is from the stay at sea phase. Note that the two Japanese CP's in the Sea of Japan are shown as being on sentry. Advance through to the RTB phase, they are no longer on sentry and must return to base.

If, during the stay at sea phase, you were to un sentry them and then put them back on sentry, everything works fine. But it took me several reloads to hit upon that as a possible solution.

In this game, there have been at least 4 turns where cp's on sentry mode were forced to return to base. The other times the cp's weren't immediately relevant, mostly cp's being sent in anticipation of needing supply in future turns. In this instance, rtb'ing those cp's would cause the Japanese to be in violation of their trade agreements with the US and suffer the penalties.

Thanks.[&o]

This is still a problem using version 1.4.0.5 [the units are in the Japanese Coast]. I'll investigate. Note that none of the convoys on Sentry in the South China Sea has this problem.

[joshuamnave]

You would think so, but no. The overstacking happened during the place reinforcement stage, when I was allowed to drop two new corps on top of the airborne unit, and I was never prompted to fix it or destroy a unit. Later on, I moved the airborne unit on top of two axis corps in Helsinki and the game allowed that as well (note - the unit was moved there, not airdropped). It remains there currently overstacked without any penalty.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


This is still a problem using version 1.4.0.5 [the units are in the Japanese Coast]. I'll investigate. Note that none of the convoys on Sentry in the South China Sea has this problem.

None of the convoys on Sentry anywhere else on the map have that problem. It strikes seemingly at random. The turn after this save, Japan moved CP's into the Solomons and one other sea zone (forget which) in anticipation of needing to extend supply. The cp's were on sentry. During the RTB phase, they were no longer on sentry and forced to return home. The UK had a similar issue when it first moved cp's up near Iceland and Greenland - they were on sentry until the RTB phase when they had to go home. It happened one or two other times as well.

The point that I'm trying to make is that this is *not* an isolated incident, not a rare bug that should be on the backburner. It is a game killer (or at the very least an extremely annoying bug to work around) that needs a hotfix. If the cause can't be identified quickly, then allowing us to switch the sentry status of cp's during the RTB phase in the meantime would suffice - after all, with only solitaire mode working, any cheating we might do that way is only cheating ourselves and is far less game breaking than being forced to violate the US-Japanese trade agreement because of the bug.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

The additional details you provided will help a lot in figuring out what causes this.[&o]

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

Using the most recent beta version available to the general public. This save is from the stay at sea phase. Note that the two Japanese CP's in the Sea of Japan are shown as being on sentry. Advance through to the RTB phase, they are no longer on sentry and must return to base.

If, during the stay at sea phase, you were to un sentry them and then put them back on sentry, everything works fine. But it took me several reloads to hit upon that as a possible solution.

In this game, there have been at least 4 turns where cp's on sentry mode were forced to return to base. The other times the cp's weren't immediately relevant, mostly cp's being sent in anticipation of needing supply in future turns. In this instance, rtb'ing those cp's would cause the Japanese to be in violation of their trade agreements with the US and suffer the penalties.

Thanks.[&o]

This is still a problem using version 1.4.0.5 [the units are in the Japanese Coast]. I'll investigate. Note that none of the convoys on Sentry in the South China Sea has this problem.

In our hot seat game on Teamviewer, only the CW was having problems like this on occasion and we speculate that it has to do with the setting "Return Unused CPs" in Production planning. I've never touched that setting as Japan and have not had any problems since 1.3.3.0 came out.

Edit: And I do have CPs out for no other reason than to extend supply. And to be clear, I have never asked Production Planning to RTB anything!

[joshuamnave]

If it's relevant, I've also never used the return unused CP's to base setting in Production Planning. Most of the issues I've had with CP's being forced to RTB have been with the British, but to be fair, the British have by far the most CP's in the game so I'm not sure how determinant that is.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

If it's relevant, I've also never used the return unused CP's to base setting in Production Planning. Most of the issues I've had with CP's being forced to RTB have been with the British, but to be fair, the British have by far the most CP's in the game so I'm not sure how determinant that is.

In the saved game you provided, the convoys that were being taken off Sentry status and forced to return to base had their internal variable "Return to Base" set to True. That only happens at the end of the Preliminary Production Planning phase for those major powers for whom the button Return Unused Convoys had been clicked.

---

What I have done, is to remove that button from the form except during the Preliminary Production Planning phase, since that is the only time that it has any effect on convoys. Using that button during other phases had no effect, so it is possible for a player to think that he was making/reversing that decision when actually nothing was happening (to internal variables). Hopefully, this will prevent future problems.

[joshuamnave]

No, that's not the problem. I didn't touch that button in that game, I don't ever use that button, and that's not the only time this has happened. Furthermore, those were not the only CP's that were not being used to transfer resources, but they were the only CP's forced to RTB. Additionally, the CP's that are forced to RTB are often being used to transfer resources. In the save game I provided, they were being used to satisfy the US/Japanese trade agreement. Also, taking the CP's off sentry and then putting them back on sentry seems to fix the problem, at least in a reload. But fear not, I've identified a few patterns to help you track it down:

1. It happens almost exclusively (if not exclusively) to the side who is RTB'ing first. More often than not if the side that is RTB'ing first moved any CP's during that turn, those CP's (and only those CP's) are forced to RTB.
2. It appears to be related to two other bugs which have recently popped up. The first is an RTB bug that will affect all CP's belonging to the side that RTB's first, but not the other side. When RTB'ing SCS from a sea zone containing one or more SCS and one or more CP, if you ctrl click the stack of ships in the zero box, it will auto select both the SCS and the CPs, even if the CP's are on sentry mode. If you fail to unselect the CP's, it will return them to base along with the SCS and if you try to undo the move, you will be unable to put them back on sentry. The only remedy is to reload. The second is an even more annoying bug that will be hard to track down because reloading from a save fixes the bug so I can't provide a save game for it. Moving CP's into a contested sea zone (and occasionally SCS as well) then starting a naval combat will cause the newly arrived ships to be recognized during the naval search stage (in fact, in the case of SCS you can even flip them to do the searching) but once the fleets find each other, the game doesn't recognize the newly arrived ships as being there at all. Only ships that were in the sea zone at the start of the impulse engage in combat. Although this doesn't happen every time, every time it does happen the ships in question are forced to RTB at the end of the turn.