Noob question

[ivanov]

Sorry for a sill question. I know nothing about this game but it looks impressive. Does it have an AI opponent or is it still in works?

[paulderynck]

It is still in the works.

[Joseignacio]

It is still far from starting the works.

[ivanov]

Ok, thank you gents

[Neilster]

A lot of theoretical work on the AI has been done and that involved expert board World in Flames players thrashing out strategies.

Cheers, Neilster

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

A lot of theoretical work on the AI has been done and that involved expert board World in Flames players thrashing out strategies.

Cheers, Neilster

Hi Neilster

Could you explain in more detail about what has been done to your knowledge about the AI. It makes feel better when anyone talks about the AI. Do you feel once the programming gets started say in Barbarossa the easiest of scenarios IMO that it might not take too long to complete?

Please Neilster I am having enough trouble with the state of MWIF to look for any more arguments with anyone, I do not understand how an AI is done I just know when they are not good [:(] Please advise, not a loaded question.

Bo

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

A lot of theoretical work on the AI has been done and that involved expert board World in Flames players thrashing out strategies.

Cheers, Neilster

And these "expert board World in Flames players" are from the Yahoo Group and not the Beta test team [&:]

[Jagdtiger14]

Extraneous...I think there is at least one, perhaps more than one Beta tester that is also on the Yahoo group. If you are worried about the quality of "experts" from the Yahoo group, don't be...they are on average probably better than the Beta testers. If I were putting together a group of "experts" it would have to include players who have WiFcon experience, input from Harry, and for sure include Rader leading this group if he can be gotten to do this. I think Rader can be found at the Yahoo group...he's probably the best WiF player in the world.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Extraneous...I think there is at least one, perhaps more than one Beta tester that is also on the Yahoo group. If you are worried about the quality of "experts" from the Yahoo group, don't be...they are on average probably better than the Beta testers. If I were putting together a group of "experts" it would have to include players who have WiFcon experience, input from Harry, and for sure include Rader leading this group if he can be gotten to do this. I think Rader can be found at the Yahoo group...he's probably the best WiF player in the world.

Agreed 100%, please don't fire me just lay me off so I can collect workman's comp [:(]

Bo

[Jagdtiger14]

Bo, I would never fire you...could you please put in your resume' to Matrix to replace Erik Rutkins??? Maybe we can start a campaign here to support you...

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Bo, I would never fire you...could you please put in your resume' to Matrix to replace Erik Rutkins??? Maybe we can start a campaign here to support you...

Ouch, what an insidious way to get rid of me Jagd [:D] Put me in Erik's place and when I have nothing to report for several months you could get a petition up to get rid of me, nice guy. I would do better on workman's comp. [;)]

Bo

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Extraneous...I think there is at least one, perhaps more than one Beta tester that is also on the Yahoo group. If you are worried about the quality of "experts" from the Yahoo group, don't be...they are on average probably better than the Beta testers. If I were putting together a group of "experts" it would have to include players who have WiFcon experience, input from Harry, and for sure include Rader leading this group if he can be gotten to do this. I think Rader can be found at the Yahoo group...he's probably the best WiF player in the world.

NEVER have I agreed to the idea of having "the Yahoo Group" as a bunch of kibitzers for NWiF.
I feel anyone who has not got the energy to join the beta should not have a say on how MWiF is developed by the developers.

As I have stated years ago in the Beta forums (look it up if you like).

In the beginning you had to earn a place on the Beta team. "The Yahoo Group" has become the de facto rules experts without supporting MWiF in any way.

[Rosseau]

Back to the Noob questions for just a moment. These were probably addressed, but I couldn't find them.

Is there a way to turn the sound off?

I experience about a 5-sec delay (cursor spins) after moving a land unit. Is it my computer? (Quad 2.4, 3 gigs mem, ATI 4650 card).

Thanks!

EDIT - Found a thread from a year ago. I guess the 5-sec delay is a huge improvement [;)]

EDIT 2 - I found the init file. And lag is about 10 sec for land unit move (solitaire). I wonder if I was running this on maxed out i7 machine the lag would be less?

[paulderynck]

You can turn the sound off, among doing other interesting things, using "Interface" from the main form menu. There is one choice on the drop down: Player Interface settings.

10 seconds is long if its happening on every unit move. On occasion you'll see a delay of perhaps 4 or 5 seconds, usually when moving an HQ. There have been some "stress test" games with many, many units and convoluted supply tracing to many different supply sources where every single move exhibits some delay.

Which scenario? A late war scenario may have more delay occurrences because so many more units are in play.

Edit: Certainly a faster machine with more memory should reduce delay.

[Rosseau]

Thanks P.

I'm in July/Aug 1941 Lebensraum/solitaire. I don't recall a delay in the first turn though.

It also appears as if the screen redraws quickly. Occasionally, I can pick up a second unit and there's no delay, but that's relatively rare.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Extraneous...I think there is at least one, perhaps more than one Beta tester that is also on the Yahoo group. If you are worried about the quality of "experts" from the Yahoo group, don't be...they are on average probably better than the Beta testers. If I were putting together a group of "experts" it would have to include players who have WiFcon experience, input from Harry, and for sure include Rader leading this group if he can be gotten to do this. I think Rader can be found at the Yahoo group...he's probably the best WiF player in the world.

Agreed 100%, please don't fire me just lay me off so I can collect workman's comp [:(]

Bo

The Yahoo group is mostly composed of people who have played the board version for an average of lets say 15 years, with some of the most relevant opinion makers dating about 25 or 30 years.

They know strategy, and strategy applied to WIF.

What they may be outsiders to, is MWIF (for the few specialties it has from the board game), but that only those who are not MWIF players or beta testers.

[Joseignacio]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Extraneous...I think there is at least one, perhaps more than one Beta tester that is also on the Yahoo group. If you are worried about the quality of "experts" from the Yahoo group, don't be...they are on average probably better than the Beta testers. If I were putting together a group of "experts" it would have to include players who have WiFcon experience, input from Harry, and for sure include Rader leading this group if he can be gotten to do this. I think Rader can be found at the Yahoo group...he's probably the best WiF player in the world.

NEVER have I agreed to the idea of having "the Yahoo Group" as a bunch of kibitzers for NWiF.
I feel anyone who has not got the energy to join the beta should not have a say on how MWiF is developed by the developers.

As I have stated years ago in the Beta forums (look it up if you like).

In the beginning you had to earn a place on the Beta team. "The Yahoo Group" has become the de facto rules experts without supporting MWiF in any way.

It doesn't mean that they don't have the energy, some of them may not be interested because they prefer the board version, and some even believe this game may fagocitate the few players who still play board game, so it's not about energy but indifference or even hostility.

And there are the ones who simply don't believe in the project, after Marinacci's unsuccessful trial. Which is not totally wrong, the game is going to have a lot of features but 2 years after the release you cannot use them because you cannot play netplay (without some technical aids) and you cannot play PBEM. When we can, it wlll be a huge step in playing WIF, but now it is not.

And they "don't want to have a say", quite the opposite, people offered gently their help based in their wide experience, asking for nothing in return.

Plus, I don't know why the "strategical" aspects could not be commented or support be given by players (of MWIF), for example, not only beta testers. Beta testers may know more on how the game works, not necessarily more on strategy.

The Yahoo group consists now in two Yahoo groups, in fact. One extremely good, supportive and accurate, which is the old group, and one even more so, the rules group, but restricted to a small group of probably the older players in the group, who have experimented 10.001 tactics and countered the same from opponents.

Not strange that they form an influential group in WIf and MWIF, and let's not forget that Harry Rowland and other mythic collaborators like Patrice Forno are in the rules group, so their opinion counts.

And I don't recall that being a beta tester was so selective. May be it was but for sure it was not shown like that and I don't think it was.

[alexvand]

I'm just sad to see our niche wargaming group becoming fractured. It's not like there's a lot of us to form two groups!

I totally understand why the boardgame side is heading off to RAW8. I've lurked on the Yahoo list since 1995, or whenever it was it started up. Always hoping and dreaming my copy of the boardgame would hit the table again. I helped playtest the CWiF version and bought MWiF as soon as it released. I still support MWiF because it is the only way I'll get to play. (Vassal just doesn't do it for me.)

I love this game and just wish we could all enjoy playing it together.

As long as Steve and Matrix keeps working on this game, I'll be here contributing as positively as I can.

When Steve and Matrix are done I'll happily keep using MWiF to enjoy the game. (Currently enjoying a Decline and Fall scenario. Germany is crumbling fast!)

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Neilster

A lot of theoretical work on the AI has been done and that involved expert board World in Flames players thrashing out strategies.

Cheers, Neilster

Hi Neilster

Could you explain in more detail about what has been done to your knowledge about the AI. It makes feel better when anyone talks about the AI. Do you feel once the programming gets started say in Barbarossa the easiest of scenarios IMO that it might not take too long to complete?

Please Neilster I am having enough trouble with the state of MWIF to look for any more arguments with anyone, I do not understand how an AI is done I just know when they are not good [:(] Please advise, not a loaded question.

Bo

If you can find the old AI threads, they have all the details. Basically experienced Wiffers worked out many good strategies and operational plans. From memory they were kind of divided up according to (for Germany for example) "Poland first", "France first" etc with variations depending on other major powers' responses. It was very thorough.

Also, from memory Steve has developed a kind of AI language that will run in the game but I think it's more of a paper exercise at this point. These things might not sound all that impressive but in computer programming it's usually best to do a lot of thinking and planning before actually coding, so progress could be quite swift once Steve gets back to it.

Perhaps he would like to give a more thorough response.

Cheers, Neilster

[brian brian]

The AI threads were (and still are) 100% open to anyone who wanted to kibbitz on smart ways to play this game, just as the "Yahoo Group" is and was. I don't see any fracturing or any sort of secret cabal. Anyone can participate in discussing World in Flames here or on the discussion group, regarding any topic in the game, whenever they wish, regardless of experience level. If you have a question, just ask, and people who love World in Flames and play it as much as they possibly can will be glad to help you.


I personally am looking forward to the first pass at the AI, which would likely have to be for the first scenario in the game - Barbarossa. My first "computer war-game" ever was Eastern Front on the Atari. WWII in Russia is probably the largest military campaign in human history and is endlessly fascinating.

I hope Steve can cut the Gordian naval combat bug knots soon and can dial in NetPlay as well.

Edit: NetPlay could be coming along, it sounds like, in another thread.

Barbarossa AI is thus at least 6-12 months out would be my guess, maybe more unfortunately. No amount of venting, bitching, or I-told-you-so can change that.