SCALE

[Michael T]

Thanks Chris, FWIW I never use or play the AI, it has no relevance for me. I only play PBEM or more recently 'live internet' if it not too tricky or unreliable. Maybe they will do a Waterloo demo, that would be good. As I am very much over paying good money for hype these days

[e_barkmann]

Fair point, but SOW uses tac and strat ai in both single and multiplayer just like CMx2 does.

This also allows some fairly cool things in multiplayer like just controlling a portion of sides, or all players coop against ai.

Hopefully they'll release the demo at some stage

cheers

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
As I am very much over paying good money for hype these days

Hear hear. I'll also be watching this one closely but won't buy unless/until I'm pretty certain that it is what I'm looking for, and actually works.

I bought HistWar years ago and was seriously disappointed in that mess...

[con20or]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Hi Chris
From my reading of the posts in this forum it would appear this game tends to the 'beer and pretzels' type play rather than a serious Napoleonic Battle. Would that be a fair remark?

'Chokes on beer and pretzels, sprays them all over his monitor'[X(]

Good god no, not a fair remark at all. Realism is what we pride ourselves on. It is where we distinguish ourselves from Total War. They have the graphics, we have the massive battles, Ai and realism. Every element is researched meticulously, from the OOB, to the uniforms, to the maps and even vegetation in each area of the map. Napoleonic tactics are recreated. Orders can be given by courier, introducing a realistic time delay. Couriers can get killed, so orders might never get through and reinforcements never arrived. Generals act depending on their historic traits, ie aggressive or cautious.

We do not have a 1:1 scale because we aim to have realistic unit frontage, large units, massive battles and still allow for complicated AI decisions. Most PCs could not handle our AI and full army battles at 1:1.

Here is a review from one of our previous releases, Chancellorsville. A score of 98% from Armchair General should say it all.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/scourge- ... review.htm

"Superlative graphics, high level of realism and historical accuracy, innovative game play, high replay value."

"...every wall, fence, ditch and road has been modelled and reproduced in the game, all with excruciating attention to historical detail. The game could easily be used for a virtual terrain walk of the battlefield. Weapon ranges, ballistics and effects have also been modelled in detail, as have units’ morale and fatigue factors. The game could very easily be used in an advanced military history class to teach about the Civil War."

[AP514]

Well, maybe if Histwar has an updated DEMO I might give it another try. I am not going to hold my breath that it will be much better than last time(few years back) I looked at it.
Histwar was little/no improvement from the game he put out 10 years earlier...

As far as the Tiller games...Unlesss he has done a total rework of the AI..his games are just a repackage of the ones he put out years ago..(Dumbest AI ever)

At least norbsoft has some good AI...

[BloodyBill76]

I help Beta test for Histwar for MP. The game is looking better and better but the units make no sense when they interact with each other. Still very buggy. It is a game to keep an eye on for the future as it get better all the time.

[BigDuke66]

Not sure when you tested "HistWar" but alone the improved GUI in "HistWar Napoleon" is a major improvement to playability. Not to speak from the graphics, just take a look at an old HistWar videos and compare this to the new ones for HistWar Napoleon. And there are more changes compared to "10 year earlier".


Every time the topic AI comes up it seems that I have to remind everyone that you sooner or later learn how to handle EVERY AI and what then?
Nothing then, then you have to buy a new game or go for a human player and that is why it's just important to make the AI good enough to act as sparring partner, because after that it's on to a real enemy.
Better AI just means longer time to know how to tackle it but after that you still land at the point where you have to search for a human opponent or buy a new game.
That's the reason we got War game clubs for both the Civil War and the Napoleonic series of Tiller.

ORIGINAL: con20or
We do not have a 1:1 scale because we aim to have realistic unit frontage, large units, massive battles and still allow for complicated AI decisions. Most PCs could not handle our AI and full army battles at 1:1.

Then I would not have aimed to represent the battlefield like it would be realistic, I would have preferred something more abstract tabletop figures, unit counters, etc..

[BloodyBill76]

I test Histwar currently. I am running MP fights to see how units line up and engage each other today. Like I said it looks better and is getting better all of the time. VC is making a better UI that will be out soon I hope but the game in 3d mode does not work correctly. There are still a lot of unit targeting issues that need fixed and a lot of other things.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I think Scourge of War Waterloo will be fantastic. I... like many here set near run realistic standards for the games I will play. But Scourge of War are very top end stuff in my view.

But...I do hope the developers will be sensible enough to allow us, i.e. help with the odd bit of advice, allow us to play true, uncompromised 1 : 1 scale once the full editor is out. We will soon learn what our systems can and cannot handle.

I have no doubt at all that the reasons are sound for not playing the game in default as true 1 : 1. They will have tested it and found the target spec machines cannot cope.

But if people wish, why not the odd small scenario 1 : 1.

The Scourge of War games are very serious wargames... very in my view.

All the best,
Kip.

[Michael T]

A couple of questions if anyone could answer please.

What scale is the map?

What scale is a single soldier?

What scale is a building?

How many men does one single foot soldier represent? Is this consistent?

As above for Cavalry and Artillery.

How do any inequalities of scale affect LOS?

Thank you.

[thewood1]

Holy Crap! I just read the english language part of the HistWar forum. Not only has no one posted since March, there were nothing but complaints from many players about some basic gameplay issues. I used to check in there all the time to see what progress has been made. I stopped about a year ago and am shocked that so many bugs still exist and are admitted to by the developer. I always worried that HistWar was overly ambitious for the size of the team.

[BloodyBill76]

I see from Diary #3 that the battalions are broke into companies. Will these companies reflect the historical counterparts. Will there be a Grenadier,Line,Line,Line,Line,Voltigeur. set up to them?

[RCHarmon]

Michael T,

SOW Gettysburg is a great game. SOW Waterloo should be better. SOW Gettysburg has a Demo. All you have to do it try it out. Don't waste money just try out the demo.

Being in Australia will be a problem playing SOW. There are games daily with our group, but our group is Englishmen and Americans. Whenever we get Germans and Aussies they have trouble keeping up with the times that we play. I believe that there is a small Aussie group out there. Our games have anywhere from 6 to 22 players.

The developer has to make some concessions with game development. If they make the game to only run on the best computers they will be losing lots of sales. A broad market is what they want. Also, to those who want perfect realism I ask "Do you want to sit at a computer for 8 to 12 hours playing a battle in real time?" I don't have any idea the reasons that they have made the decisions that they have.

If you want to try the full game out (SOW Gettysburg) I have any extra game code that I am willing to let you use to try it out. you can even play with us online after you play against the AI a bit (this is for your own good).

[Michael T]

How come nobody can answer my questions?

They seem simple enough.

[e_barkmann]

perhaps you should post over at the developers forum.. Bear in mind Matrix are the publishers, so you may get limited responses here as they did not develop the game.

[e_barkmann]

I believe that there is a small Aussie group out there.

yep, small but active We even have our own dedicated voice comms server. Anyone interested in SOW please pm me

cheers

[e_barkmann]

If you want to try the full game out (SOW Gettysburg) I have any extra game code that I am willing to let you use to try it out.

You Sir, are a Scholar and a Gentleman.

[Michael T]

Hi Rich

I appreciate your advice and opinion. But what you find to be a great game may not be mine. No offence to you intended. But I am somewhat jaded with all the hype about new games and then diving in to find I have watsed my money. BAB being the most recent mistake. So from now on I am going to be very very cautious before buying.

Axis and Allies is a great *game*, but not one I would get my grognard kicks out of. I suspect SOW WL, while it may be a great *game*, may not be what I am looking for in a Napoleonic battle simulator. Hence my questions. The fact that the developer won't answer them and testers can't or won't answer them only make me think they are facts they don't want disclosed.

[e_barkmann]

The fact that the developer won't answer them and testers can't or won't answer them only make me think they are facts they don't want disclosed.

or perhaps it's 7 days to release? In the dev world that's where the definition of 'time poor' goes into a higher level of meaning.

[Michael T]

Chris, these facts should be pretty simple to find out. Actually they should be made available well before release. Maybe on release they will be in the product blurb?

But perhaps you could answer some or all the questions but in relation to Gettysburg?

I have a genuine interest in the game. But I need to know some simple facts about scale. If my interest continues I will have more questions.

But I simply am not going to lay down my money anymore and trust in all the hype.

Your gaming group sounds like fun. Something I would enjoy immensely if the game itself comes up to *my* standards.

I do appreciate your input and Rich's, after all we are all kindred spirits.