Meklore vs Evel Nazis (refered to as D2-decourcy2) 44 May Start

[marion61]

D2 to and I, decided to play the 44 May Start Campaign. We've been trying to play one another for some time now, but life got involved, but here we are today, finally, on the verge of beginning. We wanted to test out how the new changes will affect the allies ability to make break outs and wear the axis forces down to nubs quicker.

DISCLAIMER!!!

I've never played this scenario vs a human till now. I've only used it to test things with since you can set and launch an invasion on T1. With that being said, I wasn't very familiar with the setup, which is horrible imo, but I'm sure it's set historically. This first turn may be a complete disaster, so hang on!

These were my bombing results, which weren't bad, but the way the air starts, it's hard to get 8-9's since a lot of groups travel across England before reaching the fight. I split my recon flight to ensure I had plenty of strat and regular recon. This also allowed me to take out those pesky vweapon launch site on this turn, while hitting rail yards and ports. Next turn if anything moves thru this area they are going to take some heavy damage, especially on rails. FB's are always best for rail way.

I chose to invade on T1 so he couldn't have time to get set, even though it raining, the weather was still good, and it will only get better. 90% effectiveness is fine, axis will have the same weather effectiveness too. Setting up a good ruse invasion takes a few turns and I don't have time to waste getting to Berlin, so Ike said "GO"!!!

One thing I did notice is that for all the planes I have flying naval, those are sure low numbers. I had rockets on the a/c that would take them. Was that a bad choice for naval? I would think rockets would be excellent for e-boats and small craft.

I'm sure you can guess where the invasion is landing, but you'll have to tune in next turn to find out if your right!

[decourcy2]

You know, I suggested the May start so you would have time to re-arrange things before you invaded. [:)]
I totally did not expect a first turn invasion. This is going to suck since many of my panzer divisions are quite understrength.

[marion61]

Now you know why I did it![;)]

[soeren01]

I love the May scenario because of the possibility to make a ten division anywhere on turn one.

[decourcy2]

Okay, after a minor login delay we are off. So first reaction by the Axis player: The British are coming! The British are coming! Two if by sea!

They landed in the 15th Army area, Rommel names the battle area 'Boston' with the British beaches as 'Lexington & Concord'.

[decourcy2]

Okay, 1st turn was adding flak to all of my mobile divisions so they have a semblance of a chance of moving through the field of 4-9 point interdiction that he got in a 5 hex radius of the landing. I could not even get close to pushing the invasion, but I hit 82nd airborne with two panzer and two infantry divisions at about 4.5:1 unadjusted offs. Yeah, could not get through the FB swarms. lost badly, did not push the 82nd.

I did smack around the 1st US armoured in Anzio to limit his attack hexes. I am pulling back 2-3 hexes in Italy to a better defensive line.

I had a section of my line line in France that nothing could reach easily so we drew straws and 17th SS PG division drew the short straw and railed deep into the interdiction zone. Ha! That was a laugh, they are now at 38% strength!

[decourcy2]

Turn 3 dawns. I had the brilliant idea of bombing the invasion ports at night with essentially every bomber Germany could scrape up. 3 points on 'port' and 1 point on 'air field'. So, they bomb his rail lines, rail usage and some general interdiction. sigh. Stupid crews.

I will see if I can actually push his invasion back this turn. If I can't I am screwed. I am tinkering with the idea of letting the Allies advance a hex or two and then hitting them, probably not this game but some game some day.

[marion61]

Can you tell if RR interdiction and hitting railyards is effective? From what I see, the units you railed in or moved in have bad supply, but the other units shown probably haven't attacked yet. Most every railway junction had 50k+ railway interdiction on them. There should be almost nothing moving. Some hexes got over 100k interdiction, and if the cap is 30K I'm probably wasting planes.

[decourcy2]

Oh, yeah, this is brutal. I don't think anyone in the interdiction zone received more than 68% total supplies, but my 1.029 version on my laptop doing the same thing as both sides I can get the Germans to about 85% supply. So I am guessing this is the new supply distance rules hitting me.

Moving by rail near the front was a mistake but I literally had nothing else that could reach.

As an aside as a kid I learned that the German 15th army was far stronger and that is why the Allies did not land there and if the Germans had released 15th army earlier Normandy might have been crushed. We 'know' this cause history books.

Well, after looking at the situation in here I will tell you 15th army is no stronger that 7th army except more reserve artillery battalions and 5th Panzer Army has most of it's units closer to Normandy than the 15th army zone. I tried both landings playing both sides and I can put a net around Normandy as the Germans but I can do nothing as the Germans in 15th army zone.
You will be in Berlin early.

[Kronolog]

Provided that the Allies can get high interdiction levels, the clear terrain east of Normandy helps them more than it helps the Germans; the bocage can at least partially make up for the lack of ammunition and vehicles the German divisions will be suffering from after some turns fighting in hexes with 8-9 interdiction. I think the best thing to do would be to retreat out of range of his FB's stationed in England, or all the way to the Westwall, depending on the condition of your divisions.

[marion61]

My boys cut thru the axis lines at their weakest spot, but last turn I could not get a whole lot of armor on the beaches, but this turn I moved several and infantry. I invaded here because I can use two TF's to supply every beach, I take the other three back to ports in England and I have over 250 in lift, compared to 90 something last turn.

Your weak in 15th Army due more to the limitations of garrisons than anything else at the moment. Until I bust thru to another garrison zone, your stuck trying to defend with just what's available in that zone and any left over's. I told my guys that if they saw a yellow line, not to cross them, they'd be marked on the ground. Your deployment is why I didn't go into NW France zone. You left your strongest forces down there to push the Americans around, and left a weak line of divisions in front of my best troops. If the reverse had happened, I'd be after Paris, but now it's just a matter of time before I take all the vweapon launch sites out and cut Calais off. Antwerp and Brussels are ripe and I'm moving a lot of troops on those beaches and I'm flying some in also to take new airfields and block your counter attacks.

Once my air force is in place, which I got most of it closer to the coast this turn, your armored units in the open will be in trouble. You can stop my progress in that direction, you just need to shift your forces, and keep your mobile units off the front line. In reserve behind the line a few hexes. They are harder to find that way. You bunch up your armor your asking for FB's to hit them. Only bad thing is that your in a lot of open terrain right now, so air power will be harsh while you move. If you don't move, you get cut off.

[marion61]

A couple of more infantry divisions in Italy are and will be soon cut off. That damn PzGrn kept me at bay this turn, it was because I sent most of my interdiction to the other side of Italy so lack of air support.

Italy is pointless for the axis at this point until you reach Florence. That's where I'd set my next line and I'd fight a withdrawal, a fast withdrawal to that line. You having nothing to gain by keeping Rome any longer as the city points are low, you contract your lines so you can send units north, and you drag the allies into a new garrison releasing your other garrisons. I'd be railing most of those mobile units north and letting the infantry handle the withdrawals. Just my opinion.[8D]

[decourcy2]

You haven't looked at how this scenario is set up! [:)]
In northern France my movement has been where I can go not where I would like to go. East of your invasion I largely just have the 1ss Panzer which was on reserve that turn. Every other panzer is around Paris or west of your invasion. So, yeah, lesson learned, in a '44 campaign invade Picardy cause it is way less defended than Normandy.

I worry that retreating for Germany just saves you time, and allows you to turn France into a giant tactical air base.

I assume that because I do not get a first turn and that all HQs are set to '2' for supplies that is why my supply situation is so bad on turn two.
My movement points in Italy are a joke, you said I should retreat. I did. Full movement backwards. It was impressive. I wonder if the German set up should change HQs to '3' for supply. Also all those fortified zones in Italy start with zero supplies and 11% TOE and thus contribute nothing.

[marion61]

If we'd started in 43it would be different, but I believe the setup is historical. The axis just starts out more borked.[;)]

[Q-Ball]

By the time 1944 rolls around, there is very little incentive for the Germans to be holding anything below the N. Italy garrison area. A handful of City VP points, that's it, and the price is you have to keep a garrison in N. Italy in addition to the troops in the south. You can basically save that garrison by simply pulling back to the N. Italy zone.

The Gothic Line is pretty easy to defend, and if that falls apart, you can fall back on the Austrian border, which is VERY easy to defend

[Seminole]

By the time 1944 rolls around, there is very little incentive for the Germans to be holding anything below the N. Italy garrison area. A handful of City VP points, that's it, and the price is you have to keep a garrison in N. Italy in addition to the troops in the south. You can basically save that garrison by simply pulling back to the N. Italy zone.

No hard and fast rules for me. I'm gauging in part the timidity of my opponent. Rome to the N. Italy garrison line is worth 6 VP per turn in early 44. So it's worth 156 VP to hold Rome to the N Italy line for the first half of '44, plus whatever casualties you can extract from the Allies.
4.5 points per turn in the last half of '44 to hold Rome to the N. Italy garrison line. That should be worth another 100-125 VP (not sure where the rounding comes in, I suppose cumulatively with all city control points).
Only worth 3 VP per turn in 45 if the Germans still have Rome. In all cases Rome is the crux. Without it the region north of Rome to the N Italy Garrison line is worth 2, 1, .75 , .5 VP per turn in '43, early '44, late '44, and '45 respectively.

Haven't looked into the monthly value of cities between the N Italy garrison line and the Alps.

With this scenario setup where Germany is in a supply crisis I don't know if he can create a sturdy line to preserve Rome for a few months, or if running away is the only option. Without Rome, I agree with you, not much point in staying below the garrison line.

[decourcy2]

Also doesn't help that my fortified zones within one hex of the front line are at 11% strength and are unready. Burns my cheese.