Monday Night Montage (ex-Moose Crossings) - (J) vs. Bullwinkle/Obvert (A)

[JocMeister]

I tried to dump 50k in Rangoon but it just flowed back to Calcutta... [:@] In my game vs Erik I had 1 million supply flow from Haiphong in China back to Rangoon and a lone BF there...I was not pleased! [:D]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

East of Ramree...you probably will be okay, you need more artillery there though which I guess is coming from Ramree.

You need IJA 43 squads and artillery. Try never to give up a x3 terrain without a fight. And watch out for an end run thru the open terrain and parachute attacks which you already have felt.

Good luck; you are in a strong position. I think I had about 8 divisions there in August of 43. Those Allied troops can really come screaming down the dirt road very fast.

Ramree is a funny base...nice to keep just to deny Allies an airfield. Hard to supply. Fly in some naval guards or something if you can to make him divert to take it. Especially with those forts.

I'm having supply nightmares also. I think everything I drop at Rangoon just keeps going right back on down to Singapore. Or at least that which doesn't get drawn north into Burma. It's awful.

Edit - errr, actually I noticed it was flowing to Kunming because the CEA HQ was there. That's why I moved it to Lashio. Now it just seems to be going back to Singapore.

Supply is screwy in Burma...just double check your supply settings.

For now, I'm OK. When I noticed things still being weird with the CEA HQ at Lashio, I did some tinkering with base supply requests.

Also, update coming. I think the coastal area is in trouble... you'll see why momentarily.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

If I were you I would pull back from Myitkvina. There is no point hanging on to that now. In fact I would pull back from Lashio as well and hope he turns something East into China...I would also strongly suggest abandoning the central plains and move into the woods along the line at Prome. Its a very long flank to cover and you are approaching the time when clear hexes means death for the Japanese.

If you do stay in central Burma make 100% sure you have air superiority because if he turns the 4Es on ground attack...he can disable everything you have there in 2 weeks. [X(]

He is moving on Myitkyina, but I have forts 4 there and 1 ID. He looks to be sending in 2 IDs. My ID is high XP, and as long as I can get them a little bit of rice they'll hold long enough that I can get 2-3 IDs set up at Bhamo and then I'll think about pulling back. I don't want to just give him an airfield, though.

I have lots of AA at Magwe. I'm thinking of abandoning Magwe except for a token force, due to the enormous stack he's shoving down the dirt road from Akyab. I'm not sure if my 1K AV with 2 forts so far in the jungle rough can hold. Also, I lost 22 planes to flak bombing it last turn. As long as it cost him a bunch of supply, though...

I absolutely do not want him going through to China. So long as I can hold Mandalay and Meiktila, Lashio remains able to keep lots of supply. When it's no longer defensible (hopefully not until early 44 at the earliest), I will send the CEA HQ to Paoshan and the units to Taung Gyi.

It's worth mentioning that Paoshan's forts are 6, as are Kunming's. Tsuyung's (the base in the middle of the two) is at 4 or 5, and climbing. I intend to stop him cold in this direction if he pushes that way. It's the Rangoon->Bangkok->Saigon/Singapore thrust that's most dangerous to me, I think, except that all I need to do is delay. Rangoon is worth a chunk of VPs, but he's going to get it at some point - I can't prevent that. All I can do is try to delay long enough that he doesn't start nibbling at the South China Sea/Singapore-Palembang area until 1945.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I don't know, if he built the forts up and has some AA then holding the central plains will be okay for a few more months, it only really gets painful moving in open, and not dug in.

Myitkina is tough to keep fed, also I would think about building up Uttaradit. Kid of hard to see how the Allies will come down the Uttaradit/Tuang Gyi road, but you never know, and Uttaradit is on a rail road hex, and makes for a great base in addition to Pisanuloke.

I didn't detail the forts levels at the "Rahaeng Triangle", but they're going OK. I have more engineers coming via Indochina also. IIRC Uttaradit is at forts 2 or 3 and climbing. I'll have at least forts 5 before he gets this far.

[Lokasenna]

Just opened my interim save to do up the screenshot.

Paoshan and Tsuyung are at forts 6. Kunming is at 4.11.

Uttaradit is at 3.54. Rahaeng is not building yet, but will when the units circling in yellow from the last screenshot arrive in maybe a week or 10 days.

Pisanuloke only has 2 engineers present and just started on forts today.

[Lokasenna]

Burma, Burma, Burma! I'd much prefer if he focused on a different child of the Empire. Unfortunately, I think he feels forced into an Asian ground war due to various aspects of the scenario (more air units from Scen 2, the planes I have available, magical IJNAF LBA torpedo bombers, and the relatively toothless 1943 USN OOB) so I think I should probably scramble to do more here.

If he knew how weak my first and second line islands actually were, though.... then again, Puffed Up Peacock Islands was always part of my plan. Reaching out and touching his ships with long range LBA, lightning thrusts with the IJN, in order to delay and keep him off balance. Because very few of the islands have enough on them to actually last more than a day or two.



It looks like 2 Indian/British divisions coming for Myitkyina. I should be able to hold with my 1 ID and HQ. They have 1.75x their required supply (remember that the 916 there is in addition to what is inside the units, which is 1200). More will flow in during combat, unless he blocks the hex outside Bhamo. I will be moving to secure that hex soon, but I don't want to leave Bhamo empty.

Some Americans are definitely in the stack outside Ramree. I would guess that some of the armor is moving SE for the open terrain, but who knows? Either way, I'll bomb whatever goes there. His supply situation will be pretty bad in that hex, and I have plenty of Helens (5 Sentai) at Rangoon. I'm expecting that this stack is around 3000 AV (4-5 or so divisions plus supporting units, plus maybe a division or two in armor?). Who knows if my 2 IDs can hold? It will be 3 IDs once the one crosses over from Ramree, and the 22nd is moving up from Prome.

I could stand to have 2-3 more fighter units in the theater, but they just aren't available yet. I have about 6 full Sentais spread around.

[Lowpe]

Too bad you didn't defend one hex further to the north on the Akyab dirt road. Would have prevented a quick entry onto the Magwe plains from the dirt road.

This could only be the beginning, the Allies can really flood this area with troops. Your blocking position next to Ramree is short guns, luckily there is only 1500 AFVs coming at you and you have artillery next door. You should be able to hold out long enough.

Just check out all the x3 terrain, and definitely look hard and long at retreat paths for each position, they can get pretty strange here. Plus your troops will fight a long time before they are forced to retreat at which point they will be shattered.

Would be a shame to retreat back to Ramree for instance leaving the road to Prome wide open.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Too bad you didn't defend one hex further to the north on the Akyab dirt road. Would have prevented a quick entry onto the Magwe plains from the dirt road.

This could only be the beginning, the Allies can really flood this area with troops. Your blocking position next to Ramree is short guns, luckily there is only 1500 AFVs coming at you and you have artillery next door. You should be able to hold out long enough.

Just check out all the x3 terrain, and definitely look hard and long at retreat paths for each position, they can get pretty strange here. Plus your troops will fight a long time before they are forced to retreat at which point they will be shattered.

Would be a shame to retreat back to Ramree for instance leaving the road to Prome wide open.

I debated being one hex farther north, but I wanted his supply lines longer than mine, not vice versa. I was already having trouble getting supply to flow up that damn road.

There's plenty of tubes at Ramree, yeah... we'll see. He doesn't have the airpower yet to dominate here, and he would need it in order to get past Prome and the central plains, IMO.

[Lowpe]

As long as he has plenty of AA, bombing him is tough. You lost, what, 22 last turn?

Anyhow, don't go wobbly, I think you are in good shape...Tank Divisions are pretty tough right now in good defensive terrain. Plus they tend to dig in fast, at least they do for me.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

As long as he has plenty of AA, bombing him is tough. You lost, what, 22 last turn?

Anyhow, don't go wobbly, I think you are in good shape...Tank Divisions are pretty tough right now in good defensive terrain. Plus they tend to dig in fast, at least they do for me.

I lost 22, but 11 of them were Nicks that were strafing. The other 11 were Helens at 9K. I'm going up to 12K this time. Morale is still OK, and one of the Sentais didn't even lose a plane!

[JocMeister]

Why don´t you want him to go to China? The road there is almost impregnable and it would allow you to use restricted troops on his unrestricted as well as easing pressure on his advance into Burma.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Why don´t you want him to go to China? The road there is almost impregnable and it would allow you to use restricted troops on his unrestricted as well as easing pressure on his advance into Burma.

We don't need no stinkin' house rules in here about unrestricted troops! It's why I'm sitting on thousands of VPs despite having every bit of the Manchurian army I could want wherever I want it.

Well... my Manchurian AV is back up to 10.4K after the conquest of China. I might bleed a little bit off of that to address the Burma issue: move what's now at Paoshan/etc. west, and have some stuff come back from Manchuria. Almost all of the divisions that took part in the fall of Chungking are Exp 99. A few are only 98...


The reason I don't want him going to China anytime soon is because Chungking and Chengtu are enormous VP wells. If he takes them back, what was the point in me taking them in the first place? The ~5000 VPs I have in bases in the central valley there is an enormous part of my advantage in "permanent" VPs. Bullwinkle says frequently that he's playing for a draw. In terms of ship/LCU VPs, that may be accurate. In terms of territory... he could make rapid advances and still be bombing me in 1945, even though he doesn't think he'll be bombing the HI in this game.

His thoughts there actually make me think that I might be in more danger than I anticipated in Asia.

I don't want him taking even Paoshan, as then he could invest Tsuyung and go around for Central China, if he wanted to do a lot of airlifting of supplies. And I wouldn't be able to intercept supply drops in the middle of nowhere.

~51K total IJ VPs:
21.3K Allied LCU
16.5K IJ Bases
5.8K Allied a/c (minus maybe 100 for Ops losses I didn't get credit for, due to ditching)
7.4K Allied ships (that's pretty much spot on, because arithmetic)

So my capital-P Permanent VPs are right around low-34K. He has about 23K VPs now. If he took back Rabaul, Rangoon, and Luzon, we're looking at a swing of many thousands. Him taking Chengtu/Chungking back would put this game into the realm of probable 1945 2:1 autovictory for him. I'm fighting for a 1:1 through 12/31/45.

[JocMeister]

Ah, I forgot you guys didn´t have the usual "PPs to cross borders".

But where is the Chinese army then? If he has moved them to India and are now using them to liberate Burma and Indochina you might be in deep dodo. That is something like 20k AV. Although Chinese AV its actually not that much worse then the Japanese at this stage (squad vs squad). He can bolster them using CW arty and British armor.

If he goes South for Bangkok with the entire Indian/British and Chinese army that could be more then you can handle. If he gets to Bangkok things will turn very difficult for you. He can then turn East and come up for the Chinese plains from the South bypassing the mountains.

For that to happen he needs Burma first though! [:)]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Ah, I forgot you guys didn´t have the usual "PPs to cross borders".

But where is the Chinese army then? If he has moved them to India and are now using them to liberate Burma and Indochina you might be in deep dodo. That is something like 20k AV. Although Chinese AV its actually not that much worse then the Japanese at this stage (squad vs squad). He can bolster them using CW arty and British armor.

If he goes South for Bangkok with the entire Indian/British and Chinese army that could be more then you can handle. If he gets to Bangkok things will turn very difficult for you. He can then turn East and come up for the Chinese plains from the South bypassing the mountains.

For that to happen he needs Burma first though! [:)]

Dead [:)]. Seriously. I killed it all except for what looks like 1 Corps (or something) that I have seen on the borders of Burma. Let's see if I can find the stack from when I killed Chungking...

It's the 6th Australian outside of Myitkyina to the west, which means he's coming with 2 divisions there. Still think I can hold long enough up here. He has built Katha's AF to 1, and I'm noticing huge increases in his C-47 losses (5 just last turn), so I think he is flying in tons of supply on little rest.

This turn, recon on the 20-unit stack outside Ramree showed 150K troops and 1400 AFVs. Ugh. He bombed at Ramree the other day and knocked several of my units, including the division, out of Move and into Combat. So now they're in Reserve mode, but that isn't always as fast as Move. I think I will need to divert that division, and they may end up trapped at Ramree if he bounces my small stack on Day 1.

[Lokasenna]

From 2 days before Chungking fell:

Defending units:
84th Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
100th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
1st New Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Cavalry Corps
87th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
81st Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
97th Chinese Corps
88th Chinese Corps
31st Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
24th Chinese Corps
63rd Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
8th Route Army
32nd Chinese Corps
23rd Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
29th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
36th Chinese Corps
83rd Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
67th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
50th Chinese Corps
13th Chinese Corps
86th Chinese Corps
16th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
60th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
8th New Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
6th Chinese Corps
303rd Brigade
39th Chinese Corps
11th Group Army
85th Chinese Corps
37th Group Army
Lusu War Area
23rd Group Army
9th Chinese Base Force
13th Chinese Base Force
3rd Chinese Corps
18th Chinese Base Force
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
9th War Area
5th Group Army
14th Chinese Base Force
China Command
12th Construction Regiment
17th Chinese Base Force
80th Chinese Corps
6th War Area
15th Group Army
9th Group Army
29th Group Army
2nd War Area
98th Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
11th Chinese Corps
26th Group Army
70th Chinese Corps
14th Group Army
5th New Chinese Corps
10th Group Army
62nd Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Base Force
16th Construction Regiment
2nd Chinese Base Force
Central Reserve
61st Chinese Corps
8th Construction Regiment
90th Chinese Corps
3rd Group Army
57th Chinese Corps
59th Chinese Corps
41st AA Regiment
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
5th Chinese Base Force
1st War Area
CAF HQ
1st Chinese Base Force
7th War Area
39th Group Army
17th Construction Regiment
6th Construction Regiment
21st Group Army
13th Group Army
10th Construction Regiment
4th Chinese Base Force
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
13th Construction Regiment
11th Construction Regiment
27th Group Army
7th New Chinese Corps
33rd Group Army
36th Group Army
17th Group Army
38th Group Army
24th Group Army
58th Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Base Force
22nd Group Army
Jingcha War Area
49th AA Regiment

I count 87 Corps, plus several Cavalry and the smaller Provincial Corps units. Also almost all of the HQs. Some units may not have respawned from previous attacks on the city.

I did get the 5th New Chinese Corps, so he doesn't have that one.

I only count 11 Base Forces, so I think a few of those either survived or died in previous attacks and didn't respawn.

[JocMeister]

Jeeeezus! [X(]

I think I recall urging Steve to just empty out China and send everything to India. Hindsight I was right... [:D]

With your HRs (lack of) having destroyed the entire Chinese army is huge for you. If Steve had fled with them to China that army could have caused you a lot of grief! Pretty amazed you "only" have 21k LCU VPs. Figured it would be more.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Jeeeezus! [X(]

I think I recall urging Steve to just empty out China and send everything to India. Hindsight I was right... [:D]

With your HRs (lack of) having destroyed the entire Chinese army is huge for you. If Steve had fled with them to China that army could have caused you a lot of grief! Pretty amazed you "only" have 21k LCU VPs. Figured it would be more.

My biggest goal was to stop him from doing so. I think he was trying to wait. There's a reason I worked hard to get up through Kweiyang by February of 1942. Japan can knock China out very quickly if it tries. Paratroops are essential - a lot of the key cities start with nothing in them, or very little.

There might be a small Chinese army schlepping it through the Himalayans, from the NW of Chengtu. It's at least a 6-month move, or more.

[Lokasenna]

Here is the glorius combat! [:'(]

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 396406 troops, 4758 guns, 4991 vehicles, Assault Value = 10996

Defending force 317957 troops, 244 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3601

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 7850

Allied adjusted defense: 2599

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chungking !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
15547 casualties reported
Squads: 108 destroyed, 1278 disabled
Non Combat: 15 destroyed, 158 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 255 disabled
Guns lost 177 (9 destroyed, 168 disabled)
Vehicles lost 163 (41 destroyed, 122 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
213032 casualties reported
Squads: 11753 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 16866 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 82 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 297 (297 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 118

[JocMeister]

Holy...[X(]

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Holy...[X(]

I'm not sure if stacking limits makes it better or worse. My gut says worse, because it would be worse for the Chinese more than it would be worse for the Japanese.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I'm not sure if stacking limits makes it better or worse. My gut says worse, because it would be worse for the Chinese more than it would be worse for the Japanese.

That is my feeling too. But I guess it will be an allied advantage later in the war!

[Lokasenna]

September 2-3, 1943


He's still firebombing in Central China. I can't do anything about this, really. He bombs at night sometimes, during the day other times. I don't have enough fighter groups to go around. My perimeter is just too big right now and I need fighters in too many places.

I've decided to resize a Jill unit to 81 and then split it into 1/3s of 27 to help with ASW work.

I'm sending some support ships from Japan to Guam (AKEs, AG, AD, etc).

A USN sub sinks an xAK outside Donggala (that middle-Celebes base), with supply loaded. Oh well.

Aussie paratroops at Merauke keep getting good attacks in, dropping the forts from the original of 4 to 3 on September 3. I decide to try to airlift in enough of the 6th Division from Manus to help out.

The NE Turbojet engine advanced to 1/44, and I'm adding mroe Ha-33 and Ha-45 production.