OP's

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:23 am

I want to add some OPs to my scenario and right now the only sensor that it has is IR-L and nothing else. The equipment it has is AK-74 rifle, handgrenades. The OPs have just a two men team.

I want the OP not to engage the enemy but just report what it see, but the OPs want to engage the enemy instead of just being quieted and only report enemy SitRep.

Would removing their weapons stop the engaging of the enemy?

How would you setup an OP unit?

Tazak · Post by **Tazak** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:32 am

John, what range are they engaging at, I think removing their weapons is the only way to avoid them engaging the adjacent hex otherwise some suggestions:

Use a scout team and ensure they are flagged as 'recce'
Try equipping them with the AKS-74U, it has the shortest range of all the rifles (200/60)
Set their movement speed to 0 or 1

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:16 pm

Ok, ran some more test with my two OPs that I build, and change the weapons from AK-74 to AKS-74U not sure how to change the movement speed to 0 or 1 as you stated.
Also they only have IR-L which is crap during rain.

The scenario conditions is, it is 0400hrs with light precipitation.

The OPs can not see any enemy vehicles at all, but the enemy vehicles can spot them right off the bat. The OPS are dug in woods on an elevation of 3 with a clear line of sight to the valley below.

As the test progress to dawn the LOS starting to get better at day light the LOS gets better. However the OPs still can't see anything even with the LOS getting better. To me the IR-L is not seeing anything at all.

CapnDarwin · Post by **CapnDarwin** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:28 pm

Are the OPs facing off against vehicles with Thermals? IR-L in the rain is getting cut down to a hex or two at best. Setting them as a Recon will help both spotting and not getting spotted better than a non-recon unit type.

IronMikeGolf · Post by **IronMikeGolf** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:17 pm

If it's clear, IR-L will see 5 hexes if the unit is Recce. Real world, if visual range is limited by rain, snow, or fog, that same limit is on the near IR type sensors. I think the game has good fidelity here.

Not sure what the Soviets had in terms of IR-L systems that would be in an OP.

Mad Russian · Post by **Mad Russian** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:22 pm

I would think you would want to give them a recon designation. That should help in both spotting and reluctance to engage.

Good Hunting.

MR

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:40 pm

I did have them as a recon element for spotting and reluctance to engage, what I'm seeing is that the OPs can't spot anything during the day, I will post some screenshots of the elevation codes of the location of the OP and the LOS from the OP and the condition of the weather and the time.

As for what an Op would consist of man power and equipment not sure, thought I would start out with a two man team with IR-L sensor. Does anyone have any information on types of equipment they would have.

Tazak · Post by **Tazak** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:07 pm

ORIGINAL: JohnOsb

I did have them as a recon element for spotting and reluctance to engage, what I'm seeing is that the OPs can't spot anything during the day, I will post some screenshots of the elevation codes of the location of the OP and the LOS from the OP and the condition of the weather and the time.

As for what an Op would consist of man power and equipment not sure, thought I would start out with a two man team with IR-L sensor. Does anyone have any information on types of equipment they would have.

John, what about the visibility hindrance ratings for the map area, I've seen vehicles 'disappear' in seemingly open terrain, you could try editing the map values and reduce the visibility hindrance (it'll change the FP9 file not the actual map)

CapnDarwin · Post by **CapnDarwin** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:30 pm

John, how big is the enemy vehicle unit? Also, you may be getting a shadow condition where the elevations are blocking LOS? Post a picture so we can see the units and the elevation data. That will help to see if there's a bug.

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:35 pm

I'm doing some test and taking screenshots will put it together tonight and promise I will post this, because of a lot of screenshots will put it together as a PDF.

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:05 am

Here is the PDF on the test I did. From what I just saw there doesn't seem to be any issues with the OPs, maybe where I place them and the weather played a factor in the outcome.

Tazak · Post by **Tazak** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:34 am

The blue tank coy in the north appears to be consolidating around the 2x 1000vp, while sending 1 troop towards the 800vp. This I think is normal for the AI if there is no higher value VPs further east and it does appear that there is reasonable cover between the 1000vp locations to with 1-2 hexes of where the tank is first spotted, at this point I suspect the tanks have TI enabling them to spot the OP once they break cover.

Suggestion: remove the 2x 1000vp and replace them with something smaller i.e. a single 800vp, while replacing the eastern 800vp with a 1000vp, this should encourage the AI to send more than 1 troop and if it does send more than the 1 troop you increase the spotting chances

The mech inf to the south seems to be heading to the other 800vp first and a direct movement path does appear to be just beyond LOS to the OP until it moves towards the northern 800vp.

Suggestion: maybe remove the southern most 800 VP or move it further east, thus should encourage the AI to move along the road you want it too.

IronMikeGolf · Post by **IronMikeGolf** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:29 am

John,
When you do that kind of test, I recommend running it as head to head with fog of war disabled. The you can screenshot every body, followed by doing screenshots of each with "show enemy spotted by this unit" mode. The we could see what terrain is traversed for visibility hindrance at each point.

Jim,
Does weather also increase visibility hindrance on top of cutting the range down? If so, is that reflected in the overlay, or is the overlay the base numbers for daytime and clear weather?

Mad Russian · Post by **Mad Russian** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:12 pm

ORIGINAL: JohnOsb

As for what an Op would consist of man power and equipment not sure, thought I would start out with a two man team with IR-L sensor. Does anyone have any information on types of equipment they would have.

I would probably give them utility vehicles as well. Something fast, light and probably unarmed.

Good Hunting.

MR

pzgndr · Post by **pzgndr** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:56 pm

Thinking out loud, couldn't units in Hold posture just be assumed to have some LP/OPs out for local security, such that an adjacent hex ZOC could provide additional LOS spotting? This shouldn't require a specific unit for a two-man OP, if there's another update this could be added to. Looking ahead to v2.1 which hopefully should have dismounts that can be separated from their carriers, players could simply move a team/squad out to do this with SOP settings to not shoot and disengage based on criteria, etc.

JohnOsb · Post by **JohnOsb** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:57 pm

All good points guys, I will add a motorcycle to the two man OPs

IronMikeGolf · Post by **IronMikeGolf** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:22 pm

Or a stolen civilian car, if they are a SPETZNAZ team.

Tazak · Post by **Tazak** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:15 pm

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

Or a stolen civilian car, if they are a SPETZNAZ team.

Don't ask why but I had to find this clip Spetznaz car teams

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