OT for the firearm collectors.

[crsutton]

This fell into my lap. It was on it's way to the police station to be melted down. A M1911 Colt automatic. Manufactured in 1913. I thought I had a nice old shooter but have been told to never ever shoot it. Marked on the slide is "Model of 1911 US Navy." Only about 15,000 of the 2.7 million M1911 and M1911A models were marked for the US Navy and due to the marine climate that most served in, very few are left-much less in this sort of condition. Original condition with the original bluing. Most military 45s were reconditioned at one time or another and they frequently mixed up the parts. This one is solid. Sat in a drawer for the past half century.

"I'm as happy as a little girl."

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

This fell into my lap. It was on it's way to the police station to be melted down. A M1911 Colt automatic. Manufactured in 1913. I thought I had a nice old shooter but have been told to never ever shoot it. Marked on the slide is "Model of 1911 US Navy." Only about 15,000 of the 2.7 million M1911 and M1911A models were marked for the US Navy and due to the marine climate that most served in, very few are left-much less in this sort of condition. Original condition with the original bluing. Most military 45s were reconditioned at one time or another and they frequently mixed up the parts. This one is solid. Sat in a drawer for the past half century.

"I'm as happy as a little girl."

She's a beauty! And a rarity. The Navy didn't take possession of many 1911's. 1911A1's sure. But not many 1911's.

[witpqs]

Cool!

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
"I'm as happy as a little girl."

Yeah, you aught to be!!!![8D][8D][:D][:D][;)]

Very, very nice!!!

TOMLABEL

[m10bob]

My issue sidearm was a parkerized, green in color Remington contract built Colt M1911a1 ser#2425471......It was very accurate, I always fired expert. The barrel jacket always rattled and civilians might think it was "junk"..
It wasn't..
At some point I learned the army had paid Fifty four dollars for it..
I think I still have the weapons card for it around here..I know I still have my meal cards..LOL




Your fine pistol has obvious holster wear marks proving its' use, and 2 lanyard hooks!!...Not common at all..
Is one of them on the clip itself??Mine only had the one at the rear butt of the handle..

Finest bottle opener ever made..

[Lowpe]

Are you sure that is two lanyards? Might it not the baseplate from the magazine instead?

Very envious...a beautiful firearm with history. I have WW2 Webley -- 38. Neat gun, and I do shoot mine since there is nothing special that I can tell about it.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

My issue sidearm was a parkerized, green in color Remington contract built Colt M1911a1 ser#2425471......It was very accurate, I always fired expert. The barrel jacket always rattled and civilians might think it was "junk"..
It wasn't..
At some point I learned the army had paid Fifty four dollars for it..
I think I still have the weapons card for it around here..I know I still have my meal cards..LOL




Your fine pistol has obvious holster wear marks proving its' use, and 2 lanyard hooks!!...Not common at all..
Is one of them on the clip itself??Mine only had the one at the rear butt of the handle..

Finest bottle opener ever made..

Yes, the magazine has a lanyard hook, but still is not original to the 1913 models. I will need to hunt up a "keyhole" magazine on the web. They are not cheap. I had a Remington model when I was young and loved it. Remington made more 45 autos than any other company. Interesting to note that the military is again ordering new model 1911a types for many of its special OPs units. The smaller magazine is compensated by the weapons amazing durability and slim profile making it easier to conceal.

The weapon was stored in a holster (home made) for at least 50 years.

I used to own a lot of guns but my wife loathes them, so I had pretty much gotten rid of them all over the years. But I will probably keep this one for a while. Funny how much I have learned about the m1911 since getting this pistol. The hard part is establishing a value.

[crsutton]

Yes two lanyard hooks. If anybody is interested in viewing a complete set of photos they can go here. https://picasaweb.google.com/1149198546 ... 8Co89fVtgE

[geofflambert]

Yes, the magazine has a lanyard hook, but still is not original to the 1913 models. I will need to hunt up a "keyhole" magazine on the web. They are not cheap. I had a Remington model when I was young and loved it. Remington made more 45 autos than any other company. Interesting to note that the military is again ordering new model 1911a types for many of its special OPs units. The smaller magazine is compensated by the weapons amazing durability and slim profile making it easier to conceal.

I noticed somewhere that they used to call what we now call semi-automatics automatics. Anyone know when that changed?

Also if you were going to buy a .45 for self defense, would you go with a 1911 or a Glock 37 (the new one that police departments are buying now)?

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Yes, the magazine has a lanyard hook, but still is not original to the 1913 models. I will need to hunt up a "keyhole" magazine on the web. They are not cheap. I had a Remington model when I was young and loved it. Remington made more 45 autos than any other company. Interesting to note that the military is again ordering new model 1911a types for many of its special OPs units. The smaller magazine is compensated by the weapons amazing durability and slim profile making it easier to conceal.

I noticed somewhere that they used to call what we now call semi-automatics automatics. Anyone know when that changed?

Also if you were going to buy a .45 for self defense, would you go with a 1911 or a Glock 37 (the new one that police departments are buying now)?

People have always been lazy. They've also always felt the need to correct people over minor discrepancies. "Spelling Nazi's" , etc. Technically it was always semi-automatic, as a "FULL automatic" would be a sub machine pistol.

I use a 1911A1. Unless you are used to a weapon without a safety , you might want to give a Glock a pass. If on the other hand if you are use to a revolver you should have no problems. Just my 2cents. A Glock's a great gun. But both are very different.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Yes, the magazine has a lanyard hook, but still is not original to the 1913 models. I will need to hunt up a "keyhole" magazine on the web. They are not cheap. I had a Remington model when I was young and loved it. Remington made more 45 autos than any other company. Interesting to note that the military is again ordering new model 1911a types for many of its special OPs units. The smaller magazine is compensated by the weapons amazing durability and slim profile making it easier to conceal.

I noticed somewhere that they used to call what we now call semi-automatics automatics. Anyone know when that changed?

Also if you were going to buy a .45 for self defense, would you go with a 1911 or a Glock 37 (the new one that police departments are buying now)?

People have always been lazy. They've also always felt the need to correct people over minor discrepancies. "Spelling Nazi's" , etc. Technically it was always semi-automatic, as a "FULL automatic" would be a sub machine pistol.

I use a 1911A1. Unless you are used to a weapon without a safety , you might want to give a Glock a pass. If on the other hand if you are use to a revolver you should have no problems. Just my 2cents. A Glock's a great gun. But both are very different.

In this case 'auto' is short for 'auto-pistol' which meant 'auto-loader' or 'auto-loading pistol' (I might have the hyphens messed up, but that's the idea). It has nothing to do with firing multiple rounds with one trigger press. But, obviously, it does lead to confusion.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes two lanyard hooks. If anybody is interested in viewing a complete set of photos they can go here. https://picasaweb.google.com/1149198546 ... 8Co89fVtgE

I have an old Taurus PT 92. They are pretty pervasive in SA. I have seen some ads for mags from Brazil, Peru and Argentina that have some dinky lugs on the magazine base. Nothing in the ad that says Armada or anything else. Might just be a Navy thing, where you want to secure your mags from falling overboard. Then again, I have no clue and am likely talkin out my butt.

[ed] An exceptionally well preserved weapon. Do you think you can find it in yourself to actually fire it?

John

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

People have always been lazy. They've also always felt the need to correct people over minor discrepancies. "Spelling Nazi's" , etc. Technically it was always semi-automatic, as a "FULL automatic" would be a sub machine pistol.

I use a 1911A1. Unless you are used to a weapon without a safety , you might want to give a Glock a pass. If on the other hand if you are use to a revolver you should have no problems. Just my 2cents. A Glock's a great gun. But both are very different.
[/quote]

I see it doesn't have a positive safety, I'll have to pass as I have no experience with pistols at all. Gun crimes are going up in my part of town. For in the home I've been thinking semi-auto 12 gauge with collapsible stock too. I've even been thinking crossbow, epee or British cavalry sabre.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: geofflambert





I noticed somewhere that they used to call what we now call semi-automatics automatics. Anyone know when that changed?

Also if you were going to buy a .45 for self defense, would you go with a 1911 or a Glock 37 (the new one that police departments are buying now)?

People have always been lazy. They've also always felt the need to correct people over minor discrepancies. "Spelling Nazi's" , etc. Technically it was always semi-automatic, as a "FULL automatic" would be a sub machine pistol.

I use a 1911A1. Unless you are used to a weapon without a safety , you might want to give a Glock a pass. If on the other hand if you are use to a revolver you should have no problems. Just my 2cents. A Glock's a great gun. But both are very different.

In this case 'auto' is short for 'auto-pistol' which meant 'auto-loader' or 'auto-loading pistol' (I might have the hyphens messed up, but that's the idea). It has nothing to do with firing multiple rounds with one trigger press. But, obviously, it does lead to confusion.

I'll have to disagree with you. 1st "self loading" and terms of the like are British terms that never made it across to this side of the Atlantic. 2nd , Semi-auto or "automatic" have more to do with Colt's marketing then actual mechanics. Colt (the patent holder for Browning's 1911) was already famous for it's "Colt 45" (Army single action , "peacemaker" , etc). Now it has a "new 45 " and needs to market as such. I own both weapons , and you'll get a big surprise if you try to put "Long colt" 45 rounds into a 1911. The "New" Colt uses 45 ACP. (That's Automatic Colt pistol). And it STILL says it on the box when you buy ammo for it.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve



People have always been lazy. They've also always felt the need to correct people over minor discrepancies. "Spelling Nazi's" , etc. Technically it was always semi-automatic, as a "FULL automatic" would be a sub machine pistol.

I use a 1911A1. Unless you are used to a weapon without a safety , you might want to give a Glock a pass. If on the other hand if you are use to a revolver you should have no problems. Just my 2cents. A Glock's a great gun. But both are very different.

In this case 'auto' is short for 'auto-pistol' which meant 'auto-loader' or 'auto-loading pistol' (I might have the hyphens messed up, but that's the idea). It has nothing to do with firing multiple rounds with one trigger press. But, obviously, it does lead to confusion.

I'll have to disagree with you. 1st "self loading" and terms of the like are British terms that never made it across to this side of the Atlantic. 2nd , Semi-auto or "automatic" have more to do with Colt's marketing then actual mechanics. Colt (the patent holder for Browning's 1911) was already famous for it's "Colt 45" (Army single action , "peacemaker" , etc). Now it has a "new 45 " and needs to market as such. I own both weapons , and you'll get a big surprise if you try to put "Long colt" 45 rounds into a 1911. The "New" Colt uses 45 ACP. (That's Automatic Colt pistol). And it STILL says it on the box when you buy ammo for it.

The "A" in ACP is for "Auto", which referred to the 'auto' loading characteristic of the pistol. Was it marketing? Obviously, because revolvers had been around for a long time and moved the next round into firing position. The term is still technically valid because a revolver has multiple chambers which are each manually loaded. In an 'auto' the chamber is automatically unloaded of the spent casing and a fresh round loaded.

It's well known history of the term.

Edit to add: They are simply using an existing cartridge for a new handgun. That doesn't change where the term came from.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: witpqs



In this case 'auto' is short for 'auto-pistol' which meant 'auto-loader' or 'auto-loading pistol' (I might have the hyphens messed up, but that's the idea). It has nothing to do with firing multiple rounds with one trigger press. But, obviously, it does lead to confusion.

I'll have to disagree with you. 1st "self loading" and terms of the like are British terms that never made it across to this side of the Atlantic. 2nd , Semi-auto or "automatic" have more to do with Colt's marketing then actual mechanics. Colt (the patent holder for Browning's 1911) was already famous for it's "Colt 45" (Army single action , "peacemaker" , etc). Now it has a "new 45 " and needs to market as such. I own both weapons , and you'll get a big surprise if you try to put "Long colt" 45 rounds into a 1911. The "New" Colt uses 45 ACP. (That's Automatic Colt pistol). And it STILL says it on the box when you buy ammo for it.

The "A" in ACP is for "Auto", which referred to the 'auto' loading characteristic of the pistol. Was it marketing? Obviously, because revolvers had been around for a long time and moved the next round into firing position. The term is still technically valid because a revolver has multiple chambers which are each manually loaded. In an 'auto' the chamber is automatically unloaded of the spent casing and a fresh round loaded.

It's well known history of the term.

Edit to add: They are simply using an existing cartridge for a new handgun. That doesn't change where the term came from.

You miss the point. It WAS a new cartridge , completely different from the old. The new cartridge was the Colt 45ACP. Semi-auto weapons were brand new. The 1st had come into production barley 10 years before. The Mauser (AKA "Broomhandle") was replaced by the 1903 "Luger". The Colt 1903 (38 cal) and the "New" Colt 45. The new round had a smaller edge (so it wouldn't work with anything but "automatic" pistols. It had to be ejected , could not be "extracted" as in S&W's and other revolvers of the day). The "long colt" was black powder , the new was smokeless. And a lot of people were still carrying the "Army single-action" 45 (such as a young Lt. George Patton who carried his till he died) so both to differentiate and to encourage "replacement" sales to existing Colt customers , the marketing campaign begun. Pick up a book or two on the history of the 1911 and you see illustrated adverts for the "new" Colt, marketed the same way you try to convince people to trade in their current cars for new ones.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve




I'll have to disagree with you. 1st "self loading" and terms of the like are British terms that never made it across to this side of the Atlantic. 2nd , Semi-auto or "automatic" have more to do with Colt's marketing then actual mechanics. Colt (the patent holder for Browning's 1911) was already famous for it's "Colt 45" (Army single action , "peacemaker" , etc). Now it has a "new 45 " and needs to market as such. I own both weapons , and you'll get a big surprise if you try to put "Long colt" 45 rounds into a 1911. The "New" Colt uses 45 ACP. (That's Automatic Colt pistol). And it STILL says it on the box when you buy ammo for it.

The "A" in ACP is for "Auto", which referred to the 'auto' loading characteristic of the pistol. Was it marketing? Obviously, because revolvers had been around for a long time and moved the next round into firing position. The term is still technically valid because a revolver has multiple chambers which are each manually loaded. In an 'auto' the chamber is automatically unloaded of the spent casing and a fresh round loaded.

It's well known history of the term.

Edit to add: They are simply using an existing cartridge for a new handgun. That doesn't change where the term came from.

You miss the point. It WAS a new cartridge , completely different from the old. The new cartridge was the Colt 45ACP. Semi-auto weapons were brand new. The 1st had come into production barley 10 years before. The Mauser (AKA "Broomhandle") was replaced by the 1903 "Luger". The Colt 1903 (38 cal) and the "New" Colt 45. The new round had a smaller edge (so it wouldn't work with anything but "automatic" pistols. It had to be ejected , could not be "extracted" as in S&W's and other revolvers of the day). The "long colt" was black powder , the new was smokeless. And a lot of people were still carrying the "Army single-action" 45 (such as a young Lt. George Patton who carried his till he died) so both to differentiate and to encourage "replacement" sales to existing Colt customers , the marketing campaign begun. Pick up a book or two on the history of the 1911 and you see illustrated adverts for the "new" Colt, marketed the same way you try to convince people to trade in their current cars for new ones.

Actually there was ONE revolver that Could (sort of) use the ACP round. In 1917 there was a shortage of 1911's as the USA entered WW1. So a revolver , the 45ACP was developed and issued as the 1917 pistol that used 45 ACP rounds (to simplify logistics) with a special "half-moon" adapter.

[witpqs]

This has nothing to do with Geoff's boggle about why the term 'auto' for a semi-auto! That is what I was pointing out. The 'auto' or 'automatic' had (and has) to do with the automatic loading of the chamber. That's where the term came from.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes two lanyard hooks. If anybody is interested in viewing a complete set of photos they can go here. https://picasaweb.google.com/1149198546 ... 8Co89fVtgE

I have an old Taurus PT 92. They are pretty pervasive in SA. I have seen some ads for mags from Brazil, Peru and Argentina that have some dinky lugs on the magazine base. Nothing in the ad that says Armada or anything else. Might just be a Navy thing, where you want to secure your mags from falling overboard. Then again, I have no clue and am likely talkin out my butt.

[ed] An exceptionally well preserved weapon. Do you think you can find it in yourself to actually fire it?

John

I would really like to. I had it professionally cleaned and it is in fine condition for shooting but have been told by the authorities that I have consulted with to "never" fire the gun again. Although, these things were as tough as nails simply breaking one original part would set me back thousands of dollars. The hardest part is getting a real value out of anybody (for insurance purposes) as as soon as I show it to anyone, they tell me that they would like to buy it. I don't think that anyone interested in buying the gun can give me a fair analysis of it's worth.

I am not a collector. Any firearm I own I would want to shoot. Since there is no family connection to this one I suspect that I will eventually put it up for auction and perhaps buy one that I can shoot. Funny how it works, a fully restored car of vintage aircraft only increases in value. But if someone were to take this pistol and restore it, it would then be worth virtually nothing in comparison.

Best,

Ross

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: m10bob

My issue sidearm was a parkerized, green in color Remington contract built Colt M1911a1 ser#2425471......It was very accurate, I always fired expert. The barrel jacket always rattled and civilians might think it was "junk"..
It wasn't..
At some point I learned the army had paid Fifty four dollars for it..
I think I still have the weapons card for it around here..I know I still have my meal cards..LOL




Your fine pistol has obvious holster wear marks proving its' use, and 2 lanyard hooks!!...Not common at all..
Is one of them on the clip itself??Mine only had the one at the rear butt of the handle..

Finest bottle opener ever made..

Yes, the magazine has a lanyard hook, but still is not original to the 1913 models. I will need to hunt up a "keyhole" magazine on the web. They are not cheap. I had a Remington model when I was young and loved it. Remington made more 45 autos than any other company. Interesting to note that the military is again ordering new model 1911a types for many of its special OPs units. The smaller magazine is compensated by the weapons amazing durability and slim profile making it easier to conceal.

The weapon was stored in a holster (home made) for at least 50 years.

I used to own a lot of guns but my wife loathes them, so I had pretty much gotten rid of them all over the years. But I will probably keep this one for a while. Funny how much I have learned about the m1911 since getting this pistol. The hard part is establishing a value.

I was somewhat remiss in the description of my issue weapon..It was made by Remington RAND...(The typewriter people).LOL...

Somewhere on the internet I once found a list by serial number every former military M1911a1, and its' final disposition, (as of that time)..

I sure would like to have my old one back..

I presently own an M1991, (newer model of the M1911a1 for the civilian market with a couple of differences, but it retains the things I liked, including all 3 safety's..

OK, you guys know I was a Ranger little over 40 years ago, so I do know my firearms..Dad taught me well, and he was a career infantry field combat officer..
Plus, I worked as a police officer for a decade after DEROS...I do know firearms..
That said, I do NOT carry the Colt now..That cannon stays home for castle defense.

I carry a Taurus 24/7 G2"C" model in 9mm, loaded with 13 OR 15 Critical Defense rounds..
The weapon is used by many detectives worldwide for its' accuracy and reliability. It is one inch shorter than the uniformed officers weapon..It is MADE for concealed carry and is "ambidextrous. (Everything can be done from either side, unlike the Colt.)

I am old enough to remember when Taurus was considered a "Saturday night junk special", so to carry one now, they must have improved their weapons by FAR...They did..

IMHO...the M1911 is by far the best military sidearm ever invented, because it can be fired right out of the mud, or sand..I know this first hand..

NRA?....Of course, LOL