Turnaround? Lowpe (J) vs Tiemanj (A) Stock

[mind_messing]

Don't stake too much on AA. You have our Downfall game as some sort of a benchmark. Load that up as Japan and see the abundance of AA - it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At best, it will up his OPS losses, but don't expect it to do much more than force a rest of a turn or two between attacks.

What about night-time attacks on Hokkaido - have you considered shifting bombers to hit his airbases at night, simply to attrition his strength down some?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Don't stake too much on AA. You have our Downfall game as some sort of a benchmark. Load that up as Japan and see the abundance of AA - it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At best, it will up his OPS losses, but don't expect it to do much more than force a rest of a turn or two between attacks.

What about night-time attacks on Hokkaido - have you considered shifting bombers to hit his airbases at night, simply to attrition his strength down some?

Oh, I am not staking a lot on it.

I think it is futile to think you can stop the destruction of Honshu, but as Japan you can slow it down and make it cost more.

AA + Radar + Night Fighters is the best way to slow it down and make it more expensive.

I have been night bombing Hokkaido since the beginning, very few hits and even less damaged planes, he has NF there, but I keep trying.

I should get to our turn finished this weekend, lots of clicks there too![:D] However off the Zoo today, some of my last outtings with my kids before the last one goes into the Corp of Cadets this summer. That takes a little precedence over WITP.[;)]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Don't stake too much on AA. You have our Downfall game as some sort of a benchmark. Load that up as Japan and see the abundance of AA - it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At best, it will up his OPS losses, but don't expect it to do much more than force a rest of a turn or two between attacks.

What about night-time attacks on Hokkaido - have you considered shifting bombers to hit his airbases at night, simply to attrition his strength down some?

Although AA does not cause a lot of direct bomber losses ...I'm going to disagree with you on AA not being any value at this point ..

#1 -- The presence of AA keeps the bombers high .. that has many ramifications including decreased accuracy. No AA and the Allies can execute 3,000 foot bomb runs with much more damage.
#2 -- The Presence of AA alone affects accuracy ... I do not know the formula but I do notice hitting AA free targets has a much greater effect ..
#3 -- Besides operation losses -- wounded ducks have a probability of not making it back ...

In terms of keeping the IJ industry going AA is a platform to extend the time it takes to burn down the factories ..

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Don't stake too much on AA. You have our Downfall game as some sort of a benchmark. Load that up as Japan and see the abundance of AA - it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. At best, it will up his OPS losses, but don't expect it to do much more than force a rest of a turn or two between attacks.

What about night-time attacks on Hokkaido - have you considered shifting bombers to hit his airbases at night, simply to attrition his strength down some?

Although AA does not cause a lot of direct bomber losses ...I'm going to disagree with you on AA not being any value at this point ..

In terms of keeping the IJ industry going AA is a platform to extend the time it takes to burn down the factories ..

The short and the long of it is that the best way to prevent Japans industry going up in flames is to interfere with the bombers in the air.

Flak will only keep the bombers high if the Allies find the losses at low altitude are too much to bear. Considering the extreme concentration of flak needed for that rate of attrition and the fact that the Allies can bring their medium bombers into play as well means the Allies can probably endure pretty heavy bomber losses.

As for flak affecting accuracy, I'd need to see the numbers.

About the best you can hope for with Japanese flak is to damage bombers so that they're down for a few days repair. Anything else, like outright destroying bombers, is merely an added bonus.

[Lowpe]

I think the presence of flak does make bombers less accurate, no statistical analysis, just from watching lots of replays recently. Combined with fighters actually being present, which also makes bombers less accurate, it will reduce the number of hits substantially.

[Lowpe]

Turn is away, trying once again to nail the Deathstar...high and low plus surface ships. Maybe someday, the sun will come out and shine on the Empire once again![:)]

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Flak will only keep the bombers high if the Allies find the losses at low altitude are too much to bear. Considering the extreme concentration of flak needed for that rate of attrition and the fact that the Allies can bring their medium bombers into play as well means the Allies can probably endure pretty heavy bomber losses.

I disagree. You have to consider it from the Allied perspective. It often makes sense to fly higher to reduce losses simply because accuracy doesn't drop that much and I rather keep my bombers from getting damaged. In the end its accuracy x numbers that matter, not just accuracy. In a sustained bombing campaign if you fly higher you keep more planes operational. In my games I often fly at 15k feet because of flak damage. Even experimenting with some 20k bombing now that I'm still taking occasional losses at 15k feet. Though these are mostly for routine missions...if I'm going after something important I'll fly lower and accept higher losses.

[Lowpe]

Feb 24, 1944

Southwest of Luzon, we dance with some Fletchers guarding the Deathstar...

[Lowpe]

No surface engagements with the Deathstar, as it slips past us again.

Allied air power is attacking all over Northern Honshu...after the Japanese thrash two P38J Lightning Sweeps, bombers are spotted, low, 5000', heading for the airplane factories. Yikes!

[Lowpe]

Probably a decent days battle here.

Tabby?[X(] Why in the world hit them early?

[Lowpe]

In the afternoon, the mandatory Jugs sweeps come in.

The Jacks bear the brunt of the initial dive, but then we start to get some counter dives in. This is probably about the best I can expect to get.

[Lowpe]

I was hoping for more P38J losses, they pose a long range threat at Western Honshu, but overall I will take the day. Allied did nail industry in the eastern Honshu, but for the most part I have already written that off.

I should have had two strikes on the Deathstar, 50 Kamikaze Kates at 1000 feet, and 27 Helens at 30K. Not sure why they didn't fly, weather was iffy, and supply might have played a role in the Kate strike. Deathstar west of Mindanao.







According to my notes, the Allies have a total production of 100 P38J and 510 B24J thru the end of Feb, 1944.

[Lowpe]

I may start putting the Oscars down at 5K here on the lesser AA defended bases.

There were three followup raids by B24Js (all low), one more P38J sweep, and then in the afternoon the Jugs sweeps. The final raid nails the Tabby factory, knocking it down to 1 point (out of 30). It doesn't take many B24Js to be devastating when bombing at 5K in this case I think it was 9 (and I managed to bring one down prior to release).

I have noticed the Jugs sweeps seem to be fairly common in the PM phase. Perhaps 10 to 15 percent of the time.

It is going to be a long 44, well until he invades of course.[:D] I got most of the 19th Division back to Fusan today.





There were 3 P38 sweeps, although one was a fragment, and two Jugs sweeps. I noticed at least 3 other Jugs sweeps in eastern Honshu, so there are at least 5 full squadrons here. There is another at Guam, and at least 4 in Indochina.

[Lowpe]

Indochina...

Even with removing the vast majority of the AA, troops in jungle and jungle rough and urban hexes can stand up to the massive Allied bombing ok. Once the Allies get out into the open, it will become an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction.

The JR blocking positions have stymied the Allied advance: Bangkok/Moulmein road (two positions); Moulmein/Rahaeng position. I am holding off two to three times more Allied attackers here than I have defenders thanks to the terrain, dug in forts and lots of heavy artillery.



I would be looking at landing at Victoria Point if I were the Allies, from there he can threaten the rail line in two places.

[Lowpe]

This was the first day where the Jacks really got to fight in prolonged defensive battles against fighters and bombers. As expected they did well, but don't have the punch that the Tony or George has. Jacks damage, and can climb fast, but not enough cannons.

In April the next versions comes online, with more cannons and SR2 (woohoo!), and then she should really shine.

I was lukewarm about making the Tony, and Obvert convinced me to way back in late 1942. Boy, am I glad because nothing can stop the B24s like the Tony can. It is a must have plane.

In checking Tracker, I did destroy many more Lightnings, 20+ which seems more correct after having watched the replay. Feels good. I am sure something will happen to make me feel lousy tomorrow, but for today...ok!

I may be able to lighten the fighters over western Honshu and set up some fighter bastions in Eastern Honshu today.

[Lowpe]

I never really bothered playing around with the ship repair, other than ready - pierside - shipyard.

In the past, when I changed priorities I never saw much of a difference, especially once in a shipyard. Here, though, the BB is too big for the shipyard, and critical shaves off lots of days.

Kind of neat. Thanks Alfred for all the help in understanding repairs better.[&o]

[Lokasenna]

That's a LOT of dead B-24s in just one raid.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

That's a LOT of dead B-24s in just one raid.

Unfortunately, it won't slow him down much. Perhaps, he will go back to night bombing some, or he will focus his attacks more.

IF I can string together a several days like this, then it will hurt in the short run.

[Lowpe]

I am going to lose one of my big mutant groups. Originally, I think this guy was on a single cargo ship near Cam Ranh Bay. Over the course of the game I managed to fly them back to Tokyo, where they trained pilots.

If I remove these guys permanently I will get 100PP, which I think is about the best use of the old fighters possible.

Now, of course, it weakens the recon report on Tokyo by 90 fighters. To some degree just having them there probably helped prevent a daytime strike.

[JocMeister]

40 4Es...thats almost a full month worth of replacements! Not bad for a single day I would say. [:)]