How much info is too much info?

[CapnDarwin]

As we work on Southern Storm, there are a number of questions we discuss in our weekly Developer calls. One area of interest is in striking a balance in the amount of information that flows from the game to you as players. Some players work well with minimal outputs from a game and others want to see every die roll and modifier. Neither of these extremes works well with a game of our scope. So the question is, what do you think is the "right" amount of information and how should it be addressed in the UI?

Let us know. Thanks.

[zakblood]

i think it's spot on as it is atm, not to much and not to little, if you add any more some will like the extra bits, but take some away makes it's more gamy imo, so it's a balance.

if you want to add some more, add an option for others to disable it then all are kept happy...

[pzgndr]

Weather updates are not needed and annoying, with the current weather displayed on the screen. Maybe provide a weather report button to get a current 1-2 hour forecast. That would be helpful.

The OOB tab is helpful for identifying units low on supply and such. But another logistics summary report button and/or a function to toggle on/off unit supply/readiness state (green/yellow/red) as a visual highlight or something to quickly see who needs relief would be helpful.

Some sort of S-2 intel summary based on observed enemy units would be nice. Current unit displays have a composite number of vehicles and squads and such, but this is sometimes confusing and you have to mouse over them to see a breakdown. Maybe provide a function to toggle simple enemy unit displays as estimated section/platoon/company size. This would be helpful to quickly assess the enemy situation.

Other than those minor pet peeves, current info is pretty good.

[CapnDarwin]

Weather setup and reports is getting a major overhaul in Southern Storm. Your other points line up with what we have been chatting about in meetings of having a "staff" officer panel that informs you of these various items. It will need some options to allow extra help to new players and be dialed down for grogs. This is the main reason for the question. Thanks for the input.

[ivanov]

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Weather updates are not needed and annoying, with the current weather displayed on the screen. Maybe provide a weather report button to get a current 1-2 hour forecast. That would be helpful.

The OOB tab is helpful for identifying units low on supply and such. But another logistics summary report button and/or a function to toggle on/off unit supply/readiness state (green/yellow/red) as a visual highlight or something to quickly see who needs relief would be helpful.

I agree with all the above. All the pop up info like the weather is annoying. I also agree with the hotkeys to highlight the units with low readiness and out off command range units.

Other than that it would be useful to have an option to give non movement orders to all the units in the command chain via a HQ. For example all units belonging to a HQ , resupply, hold or screen.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Me too..

Constant visibility updates not wanted.

All the best,
Kip.

[jungelsj_slith]

I'd personally like to see more info around what's going on during combat. If an attack does no damage - what happened? Which weapon fired, did it fail to penetrate, did it just miss, or did reactive armor take it out? Was it a front or flank shot, etc. Difficult to get a feel for the combat engine and weapon effectiveness without some of this info.

[IronMikeGolf]

What do you guys think about an automated or semi-automated S2?

Think in terms of an enemy OB tab. You start with the enemy templated from higher HQ intel estimate, with the units shown in pastel. As units are identified (either by close range proximity or template fit), the units on the Intel tab go from pastel to string national color. Then they go to "transparent" when zeroed out. Click on them and you get a unit strength based on what's been reported as claimed kills.

All of this is something you can do by hand now, but it is tedious. In a real Command Post, there is a crew of guys doing just that and updating the situation map accordingly.

[Deathtreader]

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf

What do you guys think about an automated or semi-automated S2?

Think in terms of an enemy OB tab. You start with the enemy templated from higher HQ intel estimate, with the units shown in pastel. As units are identified (either by close range proximity or template fit), the units on the Intel tab go from pastel to string national color. Then they go to "transparent" when zeroed out. Click on them and you get a unit strength based on what's been reported as claimed kills.

All of this is something you can do by hand now, but it is tedious. In a real Command Post, there is a crew of guys doing just that and updating the situation map accordingly.

Nice ideas!

Would also be nice to be able to issue at least some orders at the HQ level as suggested by an earlier poster (that's the Command Ops in me coming out)[:'(]


Rob. [:)]

[CapnDarwin]

Catching up quickly here:

@Katukov - If not using Limited Orders you can Alt-Click a HQ and highlight all units and issue any common order to all (like hold and screen).

@Molotov_Billy - Because of the way the code is currently written and the complexity of it all, it is very hard to get those kind of values out of the code and have them make enough sense in context to the shot. I am looking at ways to see what we can possibly pull out of the black box as it thrashes numbers. Even if we could pull all of those in your list, the next problem is how do you display it all and not just slow the game to a crawl as that info scrolls by. Where do you show it also. We have the hints that pop now that show losses and SAM and ATGM launches and some movement messages and airstrike bits. Not a lot of space for massive details. Massive details could go to the diary and get logged. Allow you to look it over during the orders breaks or end game. With all that said, what level of importance do you put on getting a sense of unit effectiveness from watching game play versus having external knowledge of unit strengths and weaknesses? Would having a Battlefield Primer doc or in-game doc explaining those high and low points be better to have? What about a more robust Subunit Inspector with a way to match up your platform against another? I think there are a number of ways to get there and not overload the UI or player. [8D]

[Deathtreader]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Catching up quickly here:

@Katukov - If not using Limited Orders you can Alt-Click a HQ and highlight all units and issue any common order to all (like hold and screen).

[8D]

Good to know! I must have been half asleep when the manual covered this functionality [>:]
Missed it completely........

Rob.

[ivanov]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Catching up quickly here:

@Katukov - If not using Limited Orders you can Alt-Click a HQ and highlight all units and issue any common order to all (like hold and screen).

I had no idea you could do that [X(]

However I've just tried it and I'm not sure it works well. I've tried to give the units resupply order. The HQ shows resupply but the units are still in "screen". I'm just wondering if that works as designed:


subir imagenes gratis

[CapnDarwin]

Looks like you did a Ctrl-click highlight. Try Alt-click on a HQ. I just did it and everyone went to resupply.

[ivanov]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Looks like you did a Ctrl-click highlight. Try Alt-click on a HQ. I just did it and everyone went to resupply.

You're right, it worked well! I'm liking this game more and more [&o]

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Iron Mike Golf
What do you guys think about an automated or semi-automated S2?
Think in terms of an enemy OB tab. You start with the enemy templated from higher HQ intel estimate, with the units shown in pastel. As units are identified (either by close range proximity or template fit), the units on the Intel tab go from pastel to string national color. Then they go to "transparent" when zeroed out. Click on them and you get a unit strength based on what's been reported as claimed kills.
All of this is something you can do by hand now, but it is tedious. In a real Command Post, there is a crew of guys doing just that and updating the situation map accordingly.

I thought about this too and almost suggested something similar. The devil is in the details trying to implement all that, and whether it's available any time you pause or only during orders. I figured KISS would be more practical. But if OTS can make it happen, Score!

[SwampYankee68]

Cap:

I am OK with a lot of the numbers being behind the scenes. As I like to think I am playing a board wargame, I do not need to see or know about all the nuts & bolts calculations. I just want to know that whatever is going on "
Behind the curtain" is realistic.

My 2 cents...

[Tazak]

Question about the S2 comments....what about if your playing WP forces, NATO countries don't have a standard OOB like the soviets. If you make the S2 function read the scenario OOB then you take away a huge amount of FOW, and don't forget military intelligence is a oxymoron so you wont know what your fighting until one of your troops spots a unit symbol or you take POWs - so having a semi/automated S2 function takes that and FOW away

couple of requests:

1. On the C3 tab would be nice to have a quick view of active runners, not all types just the main Tank/Inf/Arty
2. As Billy asked - some more detail around hit/kill, not a huge amount of detail but looking at some of the messages in the combat log maybe expand on them to indicate what factors are affecting e.g;

1200hrs E/1/2 M1 tank platoon engaged 6x T80 tanks at 1234meters (accuracy affected by smoke, gunner stupidity)
1200hrs E/1/2 M1 tank platoon destroyed 2x T80 tanks at 1234meters (shot affected by ACA, ERA)

although not too much otherwise you'll get into "why round up not round down" pedantic type conversation

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

@Molotov_Billy - Because of the way the code is currently written and the complexity of it all, it is very hard to get those kind of values out of the code and have them make enough sense in context to the shot. I am looking at ways to see what we can possibly pull out of the black box as it thrashes numbers. Even if we could pull all of those in your list, the next problem is how do you display it all and not just slow the game to a crawl as that info scrolls by. Where do you show it also. We have the hints that pop now that show losses and SAM and ATGM launches and some movement messages and airstrike bits. Not a lot of space for massive details. Massive details could go to the diary and get logged. Allow you to look it over during the orders breaks or end game. With all that said, what level of importance do you put on getting a sense of unit effectiveness from watching game play versus having external knowledge of unit strengths and weaknesses? Would having a Battlefield Primer doc or in-game doc explaining those high and low points be better to have? What about a more robust Subunit Inspector with a way to match up your platform against another? I think there are a number of ways to get there and not overload the UI or player. [8D]

I agree RE too much info - I think showing that data is more about letting the player know that a lot of stuff is going on under the hood, what features exist, ec.

Example - flank shots, didn't know these existed from gameplay itself, only saw reference to it in the forums. Possibly a popup for this when it happens, so a player learns how that mechanic works (same hex, one hex away?)

Shots deflected by armor - could just be a sound for this, no text needed.

The rest - in the text spew at the bottom, maybe the "unit X engaged unit Z" could be a hyperlink to more detailed info, if you wanted it - or a tooltip if you hover over the line.

But yeah, certainly doesn't need to be spewing the info out during the turn itself.