Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

[vicberg]

I just went through tracker with a fine tooth comb. I have resource/manpower/light industry/repair shipyards/oil/refinery shipyards repairing everywhere. No wonder I'm having supply issues almost everywhere. Problem will be fixed when I get turn back.

[ny59giants]

I just went through tracker with a fine tooth comb. I have resource/manpower/light industry/repair shipyards/oil/refinery shipyards repairing everywhere. No wonder I'm having supply issues almost everywhere. Problem will be fixed when I get turn back.

Never repair Resources and Manpower. You shouldn't run short on either.
Oil gets a high priority for repairs by me.
Refineries are one of those that players disagree upon. There are plenty in Japan for your needs, but since your economy lives and dies by fuel, I like to have fuel stockpiled everywhere vs oil.

You can just hit the "J" button next turn. Then, turn off all and go through each industry to see what repairs you can turn off.

[vicberg]

May 5th, 1942

Beginning of the end or end of the beginning, depending on viewpoint.

1st Army

Kienko drops 3 forts from a river crossing with another division crossing today

Ground combat at Kienko (78,41)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 18886 troops, 221 guns, 499 vehicles, Assault Value = 661

Defending force 22643 troops, 135 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 194

Japanese adjusted assault: 220

Allied adjusted defense: 69

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
443 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 31 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Vehicles lost 31 (2 destroyed, 29 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1829 casualties reported
Squads: 55 destroyed, 51 disabled
Non Combat: 38 destroyed, 44 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 21 (5 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
26th Division
5th Armored Car Co
5th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
2nd Ind Engineer Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion

Defending units:
19th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
38th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
7th Group Army
90th Chinese Corps
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment

11th Army

120 miles south of Chungking

Ground combat at 78,47 (near Chungking)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 41861 troops, 346 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 1161

Defending force 1335 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 970

Allied adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 138 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
1962 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 124 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
40th Division
3rd Division
9th Division
11th Army

Defending units:
20th Group Army

Elements of the 12th Army

Cross a river, west of Ankang.

Ground combat at 81,42 (near Ankang)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 25914 troops, 270 guns, 8 vehicles, Assault Value = 745

Defending force 3911 troops, 53 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 43

Japanese adjusted assault: 615

Allied adjusted defense: 40

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1667 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 88 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 20 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 20 (20 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 7

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
110th Division
41st Division
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
1st Construction Regiment
56th AT Gun Regiment
1st Artillery Regiment
18th Artillery Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
22nd Artillery Regiment
7th Artillery Regiment
4th Chinese Base Force

[vicberg]

The minister of R&D has officially committed Seppuku.

5 months wasted. I've learned the following:
1) R&D factory, when the model becomes available, may be converted to next generation R&D without cost or time. Boom instant next generation research
2) R&D factory, when the model becomes available, may be converted to produce that model. Takes time to convert but no supply cost
3) Producing factory, when the model becomes available, may be upgraded to produce the new model with no cost and immediate full production.

Now that this is clear (and CF tried to explain to me), I'm going to create 30 point production facilities for the following. I'll convert the R&D to next gen and keep upgrading the production facilities
- 2 for A6M5 down to A6M8 (CV capable)
- 2 for A6M4 down to A6M8-J (not CV Capable)
- 2 for George series

For the Army
- 2 for Tojo series
- 2 for Tony Series
- 1 for Frank Series

Night Fighters
- 1 for all except Dinah and Judy

Bombers
- 1 for Judy
- 1 for Jill
- 1 for Nell
- 1 for Betty
- 1 for Helen
- 1 for Grace

That will be it. That leaves me a bunch of unused R&D which I'll set to planes coming in so they can convert to production facilities with historical R&D.

Too much? Too Little?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: vicberg
That leaves me a bunch of unused R&D which I'll set to planes coming in so they can convert to production facilities with historical R&D.
Too much? Too Little?

Running wisdom is that Japan should heavily R&D fighters above anything else. I'm not versed in BTS, but doubt mod authors changed anything about this.
Judy line is also very important for carrier striking power. In general, concentrating on fewer better planes and capitalizing on them early is better than forwarding a lot of planes just a couple months each.

[mind_messing]

Q1: No Jack or A7M2 for the IJN? There's no consensus on this board regarding the Jack vs George, but I think the A7M2 is a necessity for the late-war - as a carrier fighter if not a land-based fighter.

Q2: Is the IJA getting no research for the late-war Oscar models? They make excellent kamis, and building a pool strikes me as a good idea.

[vicberg]

Whether it is the Mod or something else, the later war GEORGE series (there's a J model which I don't think is in DBB or stock) which comes in at the same time as the A7M2, is almost as fast (except cruise speed), just as durable, same firepower and CV capable. The A7M3 is a monster with guns, but uses the very inaccurate 30mm guns. So unless I'm missing something, the A7M2 is it's own development line, so why research?

There is no Jack in this MOD. I believe it was replaced by a new A6M4 series (which upgrades from the non-CV A6M3 series).

[vicberg]

And here's a comparison of end of line George to A7M3. The A7M3-J (not sure if that's in stock or DBB) uses inaccurate 30mm guns, so skipping that one, though it has a gun rating of 30, doesn't matter if it can't hit anything.

The Late war George vs. the Late war A7M3, I see the George as a better plane overall. Again, if I'm missing something.

[vicberg]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Q2: Is the -No Jack or A7M2 for the IJNIJA getting no research for the late-war Oscar models? They make excellent kamis, and building a pool strikes me as a good idea.

Right now, I'm not going to research the late war Oscar. I really hate the entire line of planes. Hopeless undergunned and no armor even late war. After reading through Lowpe's AAR, it's a tough call. Convert those groups to better defensive planes or use them as Kamis. Lowpe's Kami's aren't doing much, if anything.

[vicberg]

So right now, 22 factories at 30 R&D each. This should have been started in December, but just now getting to it as I just now understand the air research mechanics.

I'll consider the A7M2 series just in case. The 30 gun rating for the A7M3-J is so tempting but the accuracy is so bad.

I may add a second Judy and Jill to push those down the line farther.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Lowpe's Kami's aren't doing much, if anything.

Hey! Hey! Hey!!!! They die at a pretty good clip.[:D]

Andav has had some really great small scale use of kamikazes. It is the operator, err, the pilot.[:D]

[Lowpe]

Holy smokes, those Georges aren't Georges.[:D]

I am playing the wrong the game.[&:]

[vicberg]

You had to go say that. 660 in R&D already not including the SAM or Oscar.

No idea if I'm going to drive my economy into the dirt.

[vicberg]

Not sure how much has changed in this mod, but the Tony line leads to great late tony planes and the george has great late war george planes. The one thing I notice is the A7M3 is carrier capable and the George-J isn't. But am I going to have carriers by then?

[vicberg]

May 12th, 1942

It's been like this for days now. I haven't posted the results. Everywhere I attack, 10k in Chinese losses and I take hardly any. My divisions are all almost full strength again. High experience. He left a couple of units behind around Yenan, they just got splattered. He tried a crossing into Kweiyang that was repulsed with a couple of straggler units. The 1st Army is getting similar results.

Looks like Ankang was a supply depot of some type. A few days of airfield attacks have received around 20 air supply hits. Changsha has little supply as I'm getting no air supply hits there. I'm about reaching the end of the range from Hankow and Canton. I'm moving air support engineers inland for the final push. Luckily, Sallies are within range from Burma for the western most Chinese cities (up to Kumming).

Central China - 25th Army Continues it's Western Push

Ground combat at 71,49 (near Kunming)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 16195 troops, 126 guns, 358 vehicles, Assault Value = 634

Defending force 40036 troops, 213 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 739

Japanese adjusted assault: 299

Allied adjusted defense: 127

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
360 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 25 (1 destroyed, 24 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
10261 casualties reported
Squads: 450 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 548 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 31 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 52 (50 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 9

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
8th Tank Regiment
18th Division
4th Tank Regiment
8th Armored Car Co
1st Tank Regiment
6th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
32nd Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
44th Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
9th War Area
19th Group Army
21st Group Army

[vicberg]

Judging from my recon, which is inaccurate, Bill is terribly over-stacked and has been in most places throughout this campaign. This was especially true around Sian and Lanchow. Once Bill started pulling back, I believe he struggled with the stacking limits. He had just too many troops moving too slow to get out of the way.

This is another good reason to stack Chinese in the big cities with forts. This is also a good reason to not give up Burma without a fight. Burma is the key to the longevity of China.

In the attack above, it was a 20k stacking limit hex, so only 1 Japanese division with armor attacked. 10k of losses has to be coming from being over-stacked as recon showed 50k of Chinese troops and the above combat shows 40k of troops. He has at least that many in the hex just west of this attack hex, so now his stacking problems have doubled since the 40k of troops just retreated.

There's a tipping affect that happens after the Burma road is cut. Though I believe that Chinese supply is the #1 cause, Wenchow gives me pause. Wenchow can seemingly hold for a long time without a concerted effort. In this game, the Chinese units in Wenchow are continuing to get stronger. I wonder if LOTS of Chinese troops in city hexes, like Wenchow (supply sources) can survive for a long time or at least make it incredibly painful for the Japanese to take the hex, which will slow the entire advance.

In this game, disruption/supply/experience are coming up constantly. The Chinese Army started taking more and more losses they can't replenish and eventually, the tipping affect happened. They can't fight anymore. Disruption is the key to this, I believe.

[ny59giants]

Air data stats - Stock is different now from DBB/RA/BTS mods for long time. So, Lowpe you have to take that in consideration when commenting in various threads.

[vicberg]

Stock seems to me to be an AFB dream. Want a realistic game where the Japanese get hammered to pieces and the only unknown is when, play stock. Want a game where the Japanese will *most likely* get hammered but have a chance, play DBB or RA or BTS.

[Lowpe]

Aren't Japanese torpedoes a weakened in this mod?

[vicberg]

May 13th, 1942

China

I have no idea about torpedo quality in this mod and since there's been NO surface actions since the beginning of the war, I can't speak to it.

Each Army is a true corp with 3 divisions each. There's a few extra divisions rolling around Ankang area that will most likely pull garrison duty at close of this campaign. The white circles show attacks either scheduled or will be scheduled in a day.

I'm feeling brave and crossing into Changsha with just 3 divisions from the 11th Army. They may take a beating but the disruption to the Chinese troops is worth it. I'm not the most patient person and if they get really beaten up, I'll just rest them and wait for the others.