Air Changes in 1.044: WAD?

[Q-Ball]

I noticed a couple odd things in the air production/reinforcement in the newest version. I am playing EF Box off if that makes a difference.

1. Certain types with a production of (1) do not produce at all. It's been 10 turns, with no production of planes such as FW-200 or Ju-290. Not a game changer, but if there is intended to be production, would either change it to 2, or increase the pool at start.

2. More importantly, I am seeing tons of Italian Air units in the reinforcement Queue. Italy surrendered 2 turns ago. These are not the RSI units that start coming in October, but look like RA units that were disbanded or something.

That can't be WAD, is it?

[Joel Billings]

Are you playing the Axis side? When did you see these air groups show up in the reinforcement screen? Do they keep getting pushed back, or do they ever appear?

In a test game of AI vs AI I see a bunch of Italian flak units that appear to be disbanded by the AI on turn 2 that show up in the reinforcement list as coming in on turn 4. This keeps getting pushed back until Italian surrender, at which point they stop being pushed back and eventually appear. This is a different issue than what you are seeing, but Italian reinforcements will be pushed back until after surrender, and then likely will appear. So if these groups are getting on the list, they will probably appear, so we want to find out when and why they got on the reinforcement list.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Are you playing the Axis side? When did you see these air groups show up in the reinforcement screen? Do they keep getting pushed back, or do they ever appear?

In a test game of AI vs AI I see a bunch of Italian flak units that appear to be disbanded by the AI on turn 2 that show up in the reinforcement list as coming in on turn 4. This keeps getting pushed back until Italian surrender, at which point they stop being pushed back and eventually appear. This is a different issue than what you are seeing, but Italian reinforcements will be pushed back until after surrender, and then likely will appear. So if these groups are getting on the list, they will probably appear, so we want to find out when and why they got on the reinforcement list.

I am playing Axis. I didn't notice them in the screen until after Italy surrendered; and I didn't look at the screen though until I received an Italian Recon unit. I thought "That's strange, never saw that before", and lo and behold......all those Italian units

I am on vaca for a couple weeks, but because I got that one Italian Recon unit, I bet I will get all these units too. IIRC, most of these units I disbanded before the surrender, because I was running out of planes and wanted to concentrate remaining planes/pilots in the remaining units

I'm sure it's a bug. Not sure if this makes a difference, but all my Italian units were reporting to German Air HQs

[Joel Billings]

It would really help if you could repeat this or send some before and after saves. When I disband Italian units early in the game they get 999 delays in the data so not sure how they can come back.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It would really help if you could repeat this or send some before and after saves. When I disband Italian units early in the game they get 999 delays in the data so not sure how they can come back.

Server game, so I can't unfortunately. It's a server game vs. harrybanana if you care to look it up

[Q-Ball]

I played the next turn, and all of those units are available; all have a full complement of pilots too. I'm sure that's not WAD.

I am disbanding them because that's clearly a bug, so the only long term effect should be more Italian pilots in the pool. Only Fighter pilots are useful for the RSI anyway.

But that's a problem that I'm sure needs to be looked at

[Joel Billings]

I don't doubt there is a problem here, just not sure how to get at it as I need more info and/or saves that can allow us to figure out when these units are going to the reinforcement list. If someone in an AI game can see this happen and provide saves, that would really help.

[LiquidSky]

Hmm..I am wondering if when a squadron is removed from the map because it's airfield was runover by the allies, and is put on the reinforcement schedule a couple turns later...

If it stays Italian, because the game isn't looking in the reinforcement schedule for air to remove?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Hmm..I am wondering if when a squadron is removed from the map because it's airfield was runover by the allies, and is put on the reinforcement schedule a couple turns later...

If it stays Italian, because the game isn't looking in the reinforcement schedule for air to remove?

The problem persists; in fact, I think I received back in the queue some units I disbanded post-surrender because it wasn't fair from a play balance standpoint. I think they came back, because I just got more Italian reinforcements, and not the RSI units you are supposed to get.

I wasn't keeping close track, so I'll disband again and see if they go away permanently

[LiquidSky]

Now you have me wondering if any of my Italian squadrons are bad...

I have:

167a Ita F Grp
'Montefusco' Ita FB
1° Ita FB Grp
2° Ita FB Grp
'Buscaglia-Faggioni' (LB squadron)

None of them say RSI so I cant tell if they belong or not.

It would be a shame to lose any of them as they 155 kills between them.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Now you have me wondering if any of my Italian squadrons are bad...

I have:

167a Ita F Grp
'Montefusco' Ita FB
1° Ita FB Grp
2° Ita FB Grp
'Buscaglia-Faggioni' (LB squadron)

None of them say RSI so I cant tell if they belong or not.

It would be a shame to lose any of them as they 155 kills between them.

The RSI units are the 4 bottoms ones, plus the 3 ITA FB group, which you get in March of 1945. That's it.

The 167a Ita F Grp is a Regia Aeronautica only; you have the same bug! That unit should not exist.

[Joel Billings]

It would really help to have a game where we have saves to track this bug (so not an MP game). Fixing it blind is something that's not advisable as we'll likely end up with more bugs than we started with. I can try to use an AI test game with a few modifications to see if I can get the bug to happen. What do you suggest I do? Is it a matter of just disbanding some Italian air units before Italian surrender?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It would really help to have a game where we have saves to track this bug (so not an MP game). Fixing it blind is something that's not advisable as we'll likely end up with more bugs than we started with. I can try to use an AI test game with a few modifications to see if I can get the bug to happen. What do you suggest I do? Is it a matter of just disbanding some Italian air units before Italian surrender?

Joel: I would start with that; In a couple games I disbanded quite a few Italian units before surrender, because I just ran out of planes. I think those are the ones that came back.

[LiquidSky]

I didn't disband anything but i might have lost that squadron to an overrun airfield.

I will run a couple of experiments to see if I can replicate the behaviour.