Britich Cruiser killers

[DOCUP]

In my research I am finding small tid bits of information about British cruiser killers. Nothing concrete though. I don't have any of the nice books to fall back on. Can someone enlighten me please?

Thanks
Joe

[warspite1]

Hi DOCUP, are you referring to battlecruisers?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser

[DOCUP]

Not exactly Warspite. What I was meaning, I have found information about large cruisers that had either 9.2in to 12in guns designed in the late 1930s to 40s. I wasn't very specific was I. Sorry about that.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Not exactly Warspite. What I was meaning, I have found information about large cruisers that had either 9.2in to 12in guns designed in the late 1930s to 40s. I wasn't very specific was I. Sorry about that.

warspite1

Okay. Sorry I have not heard of this before. Any such ship would have been effectively forbidden by the various naval treaties of the 20's and 30's. Once these were no longer in force I cannot see that the British looked at such designs - they had enough trouble building the ships they did and converting their WWI era vessels!

If they did consider such I would be glad to read more.

[DOCUP]

I have read exactly what you said. That why I am interested in any information. I know the British wanted more colony protection cruisers. I also seen information on a new heavy cruiser class Surrey class from around 1927 or so.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I have read exactly what you said. That why I am interested in any information. I know the British wanted more colony protection cruisers. I also seen information on a new heavy cruiser class Surrey class from around 1927 or so.

warspite1

The two-ship Surrey-class were modified counties (they would actually have more closely resembled large Exeter/York-class). As such they would have had the maximum armament allowed by the Washington Treaty i.e. 8-inches.

These ships were cancelled as the British needed more cruisers and once cruiser tonnage was restricted by the 1930 London Naval Treaty, that meant building smaller 6-inch cruisers only.

[DOCUP]

I believe Charles Lilliecrap was the designer.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I believe Charles Lilliecrap was the designer.

warspite1

Okay I have found something - give me 15-20 mins and I will post.

[wdolson]

I initially thought that was a joke name.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

I believe Charles Lilliecrap was the designer.

warspite1

Okay I have found something - give me 15-20 mins and I will post.

warspite1

Sorry I will finish this off tomorrow morning.

[JeffroK]

Sir Charles Lillicrap

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... =13&t=5937

[wdolson]

I googled it before I posted about Bloody Stupid Johnson.

Bill

[warspite1]

Hi DOCUP sorry about the delay. This is what I have been able to find.

As said above the building of larger cruisers was, thanks to the Washington Treaty, forbidden. However, as there were rumours that the Japanese were building ’20,000 super-cruisers’ – and that the Germans may follow – in February 1938 the Director of Naval Construction asked his top cruiser designer – WG John – to sketch a number of cruiser designs.

One of these was for a ship with the following characteristics:
- 20,000 tons (hopefully pared down to 15,000)
- 700 foot
- 33 knots
- 132,000 shp
- 9.2-inch main armament (3 x quadruple turrets)
- 4.5-inch secondary (6 x twin mounts)
- 2-pdr pompoms (4 x Octuple mounts) – no torpedoes or machine guns
- 2 x aircraft
- Armour – 8-inch belt / 4-inch deck + underwater protection against 750lb charge

Another design, featuring six 12-inch guns was also sketched in December 1938 with a 7-inch belt and a 3-inch deck was looked at together with – in February 1939 – a six x 10-inch gunned design at 18,000 tons. Secondary armament of 12 x 4-inch. Top speed of 32/34 knots. The design had a 9-inch belt with 3.5-inches and 2.5-inches over the magazines and machinery spaces respectively.

It would appear these sketches were only ever an interesting study and there seems to have been no interest from the Admiralty in taking further. Once the war started there was further study – all variations on a theme, but by then 6-inch gunned cruisers were the way to go so nothing came of any of these ideas.

[geofflambert]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I initially thought that was a joke name.

Thomas Crapper & Co. - London invented the ballcock. I had thought God did that. [:D]

[oaltinyay]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I googled it before I posted about Bloody Stupid Johnson.

Bill

Wasnt that from D-World ?

[oaltinyay]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi DOCUP sorry about the delay. This is what I have been able to find.

As said above the building of larger cruisers was, thanks to the Washington Treaty, forbidden. However, as there were rumours that the Japanese were building ’20,000 super-cruisers’ – and that the Germans may follow – in February 1938 the Director of Naval Construction asked his top cruiser designer – WG John – to sketch a number of cruiser designs.

One of these was for a ship with the following characteristics:
- 20,000 tons (hopefully pared down to 15,000)
- 700 foot
- 33 knots
- 132,000 shp
- 9.2-inch main armament (3 x quadruple turrets)
- 4.5-inch secondary (6 x twin mounts)
- 2-pdr pompoms (4 x Octuple mounts) – no torpedoes or machine guns
- 2 x aircraft
- Armour – 8-inch belt / 4-inch deck + underwater protection against 750lb charge

Another design, featuring six 12-inch guns was also sketched in December 1938 with a 7-inch belt and a 3-inch deck was looked at together with – in February 1939 – a six x 10-inch gunned design at 18,000 tons. Secondary armament of 12 x 4-inch. Top speed of 32/34 knots. The design had a 9-inch belt with 3.5-inches and 2.5-inches over the magazines and machinery spaces respectively.

It would appear these sketches were only ever an interesting study and there seems to have been no interest from the Admiralty in taking further. Once the war started there was further study – all variations on a theme, but by then 6-inch gunned cruisers were the way to go so nothing came of any of these ideas.

At first glance the 6X12 inch gun design seemed to like an answer to Deutchland Series. I am sure Scharnhorsts also affected this dvelopment to some extent.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Hi DOCUP sorry about the delay. This is what I have been able to find.

As said above the building of larger cruisers was, thanks to the Washington Treaty, forbidden. However, as there were rumours that the Japanese were building ’20,000 super-cruisers’ – and that the Germans may follow – in February 1938 the Director of Naval Construction asked his top cruiser designer – WG John – to sketch a number of cruiser designs.

One of these was for a ship with the following characteristics:
- 20,000 tons (hopefully pared down to 15,000)
- 700 foot
- 33 knots
- 132,000 shp
- 9.2-inch main armament (3 x quadruple turrets)
- 4.5-inch secondary (6 x twin mounts)
- 2-pdr pompoms (4 x Octuple mounts) – no torpedoes or machine guns
- 2 x aircraft
- Armour – 8-inch belt / 4-inch deck + underwater protection against 750lb charge

Another design, featuring six 12-inch guns was also sketched in December 1938 with a 7-inch belt and a 3-inch deck was looked at together with – in February 1939 – a six x 10-inch gunned design at 18,000 tons. Secondary armament of 12 x 4-inch. Top speed of 32/34 knots. The design had a 9-inch belt with 3.5-inches and 2.5-inches over the magazines and machinery spaces respectively.

It would appear these sketches were only ever an interesting study and there seems to have been no interest from the Admiralty in taking further. Once the war started there was further study – all variations on a theme, but by then 6-inch gunned cruisers were the way to go so nothing came of any of these ideas.

At first glance the 6X12 inch gun design seemed to like an answer to Deutchland Series. I am sure Scharnhorsts also affected this dvelopment to some extent.

warspite1

Not from the source I read. These were sketched as a result of the 20,000 ton super cruisers the Japanese were erroneously thought to be building - and what they Germans could build.

A counter to the Scharnhorsts and the 10-year old Deutschlands? With that speed and firepower, possibly, but they were designed against only 8-inch shells and countering neither class was the motivation for the brief study.

[DOCUP]

Thanks guys. I think I will add 4 or 5 Surrey class CAs. I found some art work for it. Can anyone give me some names for a British CA? I think adding some British CBs might throw off the game some. In my mod the tonnage limit on cruisers doesn't exist. Also the Hawkins Class was turned into CAVs.

[DuckofTindalos]

If you use the Surreys, they're basically upscaled Counties. Just look up some English County names.

An alternative could be RN armoured cruiser names, like Warrior or Minotaur.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I googled it before I posted about Bloody Stupid Johnson.

Bill

ORIGINAL: oaltinyay
Wasnt that from D-World ?

Yes, Terry Pratchett's Discworld.