Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

1st Week of March, 1942

The invasion begins, despite the hoard of submarines, the Japanese land in two spots today, and at Valdez Alaska tomorrow.

The Tuna finds a torpedo that works and hits an AK, but she should survive.

The troops are ashore and should easily take the bases tomorrow or the next day. Loss on the landings weren't terrible, about 30 combat squads disabled and 1 LCU VP awarded. This despite having almost 0 prep since they were prepping for Victoria (some of them).


Valdez landing will be followed by a landing at Whittier in Alaska.

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PaxMondo
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Three for three...cancelled the Nates, and switched to Oscar Ic.

What I have observed is that players now reverting to PDU OFF are overthinking RnD. Most of us stopped playing PDU OFF because it became quite simple: RnD Oscar and A6M. That's about it for sure.
For everything else it hardly matters. Why? so few groups upgrade to anything else. Very hard to justify spending 90K supply to build maybe 200 aircraft the entire game and get them a couple months early. At any rate that was the results of most of us. YMMV.
For the rest of the IJA, maybe you can invest in Helen RnD. You have to keep building Sally for almost the entire game.
For the rest of the IJN, you can likely justify Jill/Judy/Grace. That's about it. Everything else, I just let them appear per schedule.

That means my NF are just Oscar/A6M on night CAP. Recon is Babs for most of the game. Helen/Sally or Nettie the whole game. etc.

Don't over think it. Don't waste 1000's of supply on a couple of hundred planes. They won't matter in the end. The supply will.

The biggest difference between PDU OFF and ON is going to be your pilot losses. Plan on 25% more losses. That means your training pools now have to be much deeper than before.
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vicberg
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by vicberg »

I'm playing a PDU off also. Thanks for this.
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Three for three...cancelled the Nates, and switched to Oscar Ic.

What I have observed is that players now reverting to PDU OFF are overthinking RnD. Most of us stopped playing PDU OFF because it became quite simple: RnD Oscar and A6M. That's about it for sure.
For everything else it hardly matters. Why? so few groups upgrade to anything else. Very hard to justify spending 90K supply to build maybe 200 aircraft the entire game and get them a couple months early. At any rate that was the results of most of us. YMMV.
For the rest of the IJA, maybe you can invest in Helen RnD. You have to keep building Sally for almost the entire game.
For the rest of the IJN, you can likely justify Jill/Judy/Grace. That's about it. Everything else, I just let them appear per schedule.

That means my NF are just Oscar/A6M on night CAP. Recon is Babs for most of the game. Helen/Sally or Nettie the whole game. etc.

Don't over think it. Don't waste 1000's of supply on a couple of hundred planes. They won't matter in the end. The supply will.

The biggest difference between PDU OFF and ON is going to be your pilot losses. Plan on 25% more losses. That means your training pools now have to be much deeper than before.

I will, with much respect, disagree on some points. I think fighter research for Frank is well worth it.

Now Jack and George are fairly restricted in the number of squadrons that upgrade to them - like 1 or 2 thru 43. So they aren't much help. Tony has 3 or 4 that can get to the 61d, but it isn't really good except against bombers.

But Frank A has 7 squadrons available in 1943. Some upgrade straight to it, others thru the early Oscar models (IIa, IIb, IIIa,), and others thru Tojo IIc. Now this is a force worth getting early!

Nick A (and then C): they come early, but there are also 4 squadrons that can be converted in 42 when it can really do some damage. After 42 on rear area anti bomber protection it will be good outside of escort range all the way thru half of 44.

For bombers: I would add the Lilly IIb/IIc line. Quite a few Army squadrons upgrade here, and it is a worthwhile long strike plane thru 43. Getting it a few months early might help against a late Allied push to avoid autovictory, or more likely, just a plane that can hit Fletchers.

Night Fighters: I think it is worthwhile researching the Irving and the Nick. The Allies can really abuse night bombing in PDU off. IMHO.

Of my R&D changes to Olorin's start: I have added Oscar, Frank and Lilly IIb r&d. I have expanded Zero and Oscar production. I have boosted engine production. I probably added some NF research too.

Nothing embraces the suck more than having 200 Allied bombers hitting your runways at night without NF. Perhaps the better AA present in this mod will alleviate that problem to a degree.









vicberg
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by vicberg »

This helps also [:)]
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PaxMondo
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Nothing embraces the suck more than having 200 Allied bombers hitting your runways at night without NF. Perhaps the better AA present in this mod will alleviate that problem to a degree.
It isn't that I disagree about allied night bombing, but that there are so few groups that can be NF. And even fewer to the early models. Its all a cost of supply vs are the NF's that much different than Oscar on night mission CAP? YMMV.
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PaxMondo
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
But Frank A has 7 squadrons available in 1943. Some upgrade straight to it, others thru the early Oscar models (IIa, IIb, IIIa,), and others thru Tojo IIc. Now this is a force worth getting early!
Pax
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Its all a cost of supply vs are the NF's that much different than Oscar on night mission CAP? YMMV.

My experience is that the Irving-s is far superior to the Oscar on night duty. Much better just to fly Petes on night cap and hope they don't intercept than a daytime fighter at night especially against 4E American beasts.

I do agree that there is a dearth of NF squadrons, but that is also true to a degree in PDU on.


vicberg
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by vicberg »

Since you are talking planes, the Lilly IIb is showing as a dive bomber but twin engine and looks to be a level bomber? What IS this plane?
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Encircled
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Encircled »

What I have observed is that players now reverting to PDU OFF are overthinking RnD. Most of us stopped playing PDU OFF because it became quite simple: RnD Oscar and A6M. That's about it for sure.
For everything else it hardly matters. Why? so few groups upgrade to anything else. Very hard to justify spending 90K supply to build maybe 200 aircraft the entire game and get them a couple months early. At any rate that was the results of most of us. YMMV.
For the rest of the IJA, maybe you can invest in Helen RnD. You have to keep building Sally for almost the entire game.
For the rest of the IJN, you can likely justify Jill/Judy/Grace. That's about it. Everything else, I just let them appear per schedule.

That means my NF are just Oscar/A6M on night CAP. Recon is Babs for most of the game. Helen/Sally or Nettie the whole game. etc.

Don't over think it. Don't waste 1000's of supply on a couple of hundred planes. They won't matter in the end. The supply will.

The biggest difference between PDU OFF and ON is going to be your pilot losses. Plan on 25% more losses. That means your training pools now have to be much deeper than before.

Pretty much what I do. Lily dive bomber is worth researching, and you have to research the NF. I like the Tony as anti-bomber as well, even the early ones
vicberg
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by vicberg »

What is throwing me for a loop is that the Lily IIb has the same stats as IIa, which is a level bomber. Is the IIb an anti-ship plane?
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: vicberg

What is throwing me for a loop is that the Lily IIb has the same stats as IIa, which is a level bomber. Is the IIb an anti-ship plane?

IIb is a little worse than the IIa...half the bombload; but it is a dive bomber. Small bombs, but good for unarmored flight decks, and any ship below a BB.


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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

Ashore, no losses.

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witpqs
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by witpqs »

Are you going for Vancouver, too?
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

The Tuna. Yesterday they torpedoed an AK. Today they had two shots, the first at a destroyer that missed, and this misfire.

A pretty good Captain and Crew I guess.

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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you going for Vancouver, too?

I doubt that I can, he probably will have two divisions or more there. There is no restriction in transferring American troops to Canada.

But I will get some recon up, it might be a possibility if I can suppress Victoria.
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Lokasenna
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you going for Vancouver, too?

I doubt that I can, he probably will have two divisions or more there. There is no restriction in transferring American troops to Canada.

But I will get some recon up, it might be a possibility if I can suppress Victoria.

Put me down for "I doubt you can do that" - also, it's on the main rail and road lines with CONUS. Fat chance of getting Vancouver because you have to take Victoria first or the CD guns will sink you in the strait. And that triggers emergency reinforcements...

Here's an interesting thought or two, though...


Seattle isn't the only place in CONUS with aircraft industry. San Diego and LA have some also, IIRC. If you are fighting him in the air up near Seattle, it may be possible for you to do a quick in-and-out strike on either of those other 2 cities. However, flak will be murderous so I would be setting my DBs at 16K (so they don't dive) and my TBs at whatever is high enough to avoid the worst of the flak... you might not get enough hits to be worth it, but it's worth thinking about, IMO.


Will you be going for Prince Rupert? I'd be looking at whichever is the largest port on mainland Canada - all of the Canadian Supplies and Fuel will be flowing there. I think that might be Prince Rupert, even at game's start.
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

Alaska has started too.

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Lokasenna
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For bombers: I would add the Lilly IIb/IIc line. Quite a few Army squadrons upgrade here, and it is a worthwhile long strike plane thru 43. Getting it a few months early might help against a late Allied push to avoid autovictory, or more likely, just a plane that can hit Fletchers.


FYI, in my game nothing seems to upgrade to the Lily-IIc. Even with PDU On, it's not in most of my lists for units that can upgrade to the -IIb. It's more than mildly frustrating. Unsure if it is a DB error in stock Scen 2, but I'd check yours... I have units that say, in Tracker, that they can upgrade to the -IIc but when I look in game the airframe isn't even on the list of eligible planes to upgrade to.

Extremely annoying.
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Lowpe
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RE: Oh, Canada!

Post by Lowpe »

I tried a quick grab of Malang, should waited for more transports as he held me off. 1000 AV arriving in Soerabaja tomorrow.

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