Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton-T131- Game Over-Soviet victory.
Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21
RE: T70
T70- Mud to the south so action stops.
Key event is I retake Lipetk- or whatever its called to the south of Tula finally.
Havent been doing screenshots for many of the future crappy weather turns as not alot is happening aside from a couple soviet corps being wiped out in the far south.
Key event is I retake Lipetk- or whatever its called to the south of Tula finally.
Havent been doing screenshots for many of the future crappy weather turns as not alot is happening aside from a couple soviet corps being wiped out in the far south.
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RE: OOB
Me and Pelton just got this going again now that hes back from Vacation but turns will probably still be slow for abit yet. Just finished up T81, didnt bother with screens as really not alot is going on other than thousands dying on each side for no real territory trading lol.
South of Rostov he has the Italian army backstopped by 1-2 panzer corps....alot of the rest of his Panzer units are holding the lines to the west and South west of Stalingrad. I have been picking on the axis allied units south of Rostov the last two turns and most of them are only showing 1 CV, his panzer corps backstop is threatening enough to keep me from being to bold, but I did rout one of his panzer divisions this turn by pushing all the italians back and then smacking it with a shock army + friends.
He has re-deployed at least 1-2 corps of panzers/motorized troops to the Tula- seems he is finding my offensive there more and more annoying. The last two turns we have basically been trading attacks and piles of bodies. As I launch several successful attacks take some hexes then he counterattacks and pushes me back. For the most part im fine with this as he is losing 1-2k men per counterattack....my air superiority is telling even in the winter.
The rest of the front is pretty quiet, as hes heavily entrenched and I dont have near enough corps to open new offensives yet. Soviet OOB is just steadily climbing Axis OOB is staying about the same due to 20k+ losses per turn.
I have a feeling Soviet OOB at least equipment wise will begin to steadily jump even more come February as most of my ToEs change and for the most part add tons of equipment and even a fair chunk of men for some units. Plus I can start using more T34s to replace the the T60/T70s that i lose fast than I build them. Tank losses still appear to be abit over 50% are light tanks so its not really burning into my T34 stockpiles as im still building 2x more T34s than im losing each week on average.
1943 is going to be interesting I think for sure as I dont plan to take a breather, im trying to keep gearing my army for offensive operations and keep pressure on Pelton at any points along the front I feel I can.
Current major unit OOB as of T81- 12 Gd Rifle Corps, 24 Cav corps(22 gds), 6 mech corps, 24 Tank Corps (13 gds), 23 artillery divisions, 4 gds rocket divisions+ 6 misc artillery BDEs.
South of Rostov he has the Italian army backstopped by 1-2 panzer corps....alot of the rest of his Panzer units are holding the lines to the west and South west of Stalingrad. I have been picking on the axis allied units south of Rostov the last two turns and most of them are only showing 1 CV, his panzer corps backstop is threatening enough to keep me from being to bold, but I did rout one of his panzer divisions this turn by pushing all the italians back and then smacking it with a shock army + friends.
He has re-deployed at least 1-2 corps of panzers/motorized troops to the Tula- seems he is finding my offensive there more and more annoying. The last two turns we have basically been trading attacks and piles of bodies. As I launch several successful attacks take some hexes then he counterattacks and pushes me back. For the most part im fine with this as he is losing 1-2k men per counterattack....my air superiority is telling even in the winter.
The rest of the front is pretty quiet, as hes heavily entrenched and I dont have near enough corps to open new offensives yet. Soviet OOB is just steadily climbing Axis OOB is staying about the same due to 20k+ losses per turn.
I have a feeling Soviet OOB at least equipment wise will begin to steadily jump even more come February as most of my ToEs change and for the most part add tons of equipment and even a fair chunk of men for some units. Plus I can start using more T34s to replace the the T60/T70s that i lose fast than I build them. Tank losses still appear to be abit over 50% are light tanks so its not really burning into my T34 stockpiles as im still building 2x more T34s than im losing each week on average.
1943 is going to be interesting I think for sure as I dont plan to take a breather, im trying to keep gearing my army for offensive operations and keep pressure on Pelton at any points along the front I feel I can.
Current major unit OOB as of T81- 12 Gd Rifle Corps, 24 Cav corps(22 gds), 6 mech corps, 24 Tank Corps (13 gds), 23 artillery divisions, 4 gds rocket divisions+ 6 misc artillery BDEs.
RE: OOB
The problem is they are 50% of your tank strength or more for basically all of 1942...guard cav corps base only get t60/t70s
Not till 1943 do u get massive amounts more t34s on ToEs.
My general opinion is to ignore my soviet AFV losses as most of them are effectively obsolete tanks anyway.
Not till 1943 do u get massive amounts more t34s on ToEs.
My general opinion is to ignore my soviet AFV losses as most of them are effectively obsolete tanks anyway.
RE:T83
T83 down- not much in the way of massive changes...casualties for both sides remain high over these January blizzard turns...almost 50k total axis and almost 80k total soviets for the week counting attrition and combat losses. Attrition seems to be keeping both of our armies from growing in size much over the winter. More rifle corps are formed and Soviet offensives in the far north and Leningrad both gain a hex.
Back and forth fighting continues south of Tula- losses are heavy on both sides as alot of very good German units are committed to holding back Soviet assault units in this sectors Wiking and GD along with 1st Corps infantry divisions. However the fighting is back and forth which is fine with Stavka as attrition is the name of the game for Soviets.
In the Far South Soviet forces pound the German lines to the SW of Stalingrad but reserve activations prevent any hex gain although several fort levels are chewed down which wont rebuild during blizzards.
South of Rostov Soviet Forces pound the entire axis frontline push the axis back about 2 hexes all along the line but slow soviet infantry can only secure the first hex pushed along the line....so most likey a series of German attacks will push back next turn as back and forth attacks have been steady on both sides here as well. However the Italians are getting weaker and currently their arent enough Germans to make a line so curious when Pelton is just going to start pulling back, as Im getting a couple good attacks per turn on german forces as well once all the italian screens are smashed.
I know the italians leave the game in 1943...but allowing the Soviet forces all these basically free wins each turn isnt a good long term German plan IMO- Ive gotten several guards promotions on key units- tank corps/mech corps/ and fresh cav corps from just beating up italians...not to mention this has quickly raised alot of those units morale into the 60s over just a couple turns as some units are getting 3+ wins a turn.
I'll post screen again at the end of winter....as really not much ground has changed hands aside from a decent push back north towards Rostov but even it is mainly just about 1 hex row gained per turn. Soviet movement into enemy Zocs is painfully slow especially in bad weather lol.
Back and forth fighting continues south of Tula- losses are heavy on both sides as alot of very good German units are committed to holding back Soviet assault units in this sectors Wiking and GD along with 1st Corps infantry divisions. However the fighting is back and forth which is fine with Stavka as attrition is the name of the game for Soviets.
In the Far South Soviet forces pound the German lines to the SW of Stalingrad but reserve activations prevent any hex gain although several fort levels are chewed down which wont rebuild during blizzards.
South of Rostov Soviet Forces pound the entire axis frontline push the axis back about 2 hexes all along the line but slow soviet infantry can only secure the first hex pushed along the line....so most likey a series of German attacks will push back next turn as back and forth attacks have been steady on both sides here as well. However the Italians are getting weaker and currently their arent enough Germans to make a line so curious when Pelton is just going to start pulling back, as Im getting a couple good attacks per turn on german forces as well once all the italian screens are smashed.
I know the italians leave the game in 1943...but allowing the Soviet forces all these basically free wins each turn isnt a good long term German plan IMO- Ive gotten several guards promotions on key units- tank corps/mech corps/ and fresh cav corps from just beating up italians...not to mention this has quickly raised alot of those units morale into the 60s over just a couple turns as some units are getting 3+ wins a turn.
I'll post screen again at the end of winter....as really not much ground has changed hands aside from a decent push back north towards Rostov but even it is mainly just about 1 hex row gained per turn. Soviet movement into enemy Zocs is painfully slow especially in bad weather lol.
RE: RE:T83
T84- Attritional fighting continues along the front. All Soviet offensives started over the winter have continued with mixed success- however success is success however limited.
-Again over 40k total axis losses for the turn and over 80k soviet losses so attrition should still be draining German manpower reserves despite his force growing from reinforcing divisions. AFV losses for the soviets but becoming slightly lower on average due to not as many light tanks around.
North-Another hex is gained in the far north- Additional reinforcements were sent to beef up the Axis Leningrad sector and no ground was gained.
Center- 3 hexes pushed and occuppied by Rhzev
Area south of Tula- Continued heavy fighting- he launched several counterattacks and then weakly occuppied- my turn I attacked in several sectors regaining all the hexes and pushing a couple extra. Basially heavy attritional fighting which is fine with me.
Rostov/Stalingrad sectors- a heavily fortified and manned hex to the SW of Stalingrad is taken. Heavy German counterattacks south of Rostov by mobile forces attempt to cover a a slight axis withdrawl/delay my follow up moves and attacks. Soviet Forces trudge forward at their ever slow pace with mobile forces continuing to assault the weak Italian forces for experience/Morale.
Basically all of Peltons resistence from Tula south is trying to buy time and keep me away from the Don/River lines he wants to defend come the thaw/summer. My forces in Tula have been slowed but not stopped due to the committment of lots of German infantry divisions plus 1-2 panzer corps. In the Far South has been starting a slow stagged fall back but Im sure he intends to try and hold me south of the Don until summer so eventually he will halt and engage in what im hoping is heavy attritional fighting to hold the line.
Lots of Soviet assets have been committed to the northern sector and so it should continue to force Pelton to feed reinforcements to that sector or allow the collapse of the fins.
Will post screen shots as we get towards the end of winter...still in January 1943, and movement is slow---alot of grinding attacks and a slow 1-2 hex advance north towards Rostov in the South.
-Again over 40k total axis losses for the turn and over 80k soviet losses so attrition should still be draining German manpower reserves despite his force growing from reinforcing divisions. AFV losses for the soviets but becoming slightly lower on average due to not as many light tanks around.
North-Another hex is gained in the far north- Additional reinforcements were sent to beef up the Axis Leningrad sector and no ground was gained.
Center- 3 hexes pushed and occuppied by Rhzev
Area south of Tula- Continued heavy fighting- he launched several counterattacks and then weakly occuppied- my turn I attacked in several sectors regaining all the hexes and pushing a couple extra. Basially heavy attritional fighting which is fine with me.
Rostov/Stalingrad sectors- a heavily fortified and manned hex to the SW of Stalingrad is taken. Heavy German counterattacks south of Rostov by mobile forces attempt to cover a a slight axis withdrawl/delay my follow up moves and attacks. Soviet Forces trudge forward at their ever slow pace with mobile forces continuing to assault the weak Italian forces for experience/Morale.
Basically all of Peltons resistence from Tula south is trying to buy time and keep me away from the Don/River lines he wants to defend come the thaw/summer. My forces in Tula have been slowed but not stopped due to the committment of lots of German infantry divisions plus 1-2 panzer corps. In the Far South has been starting a slow stagged fall back but Im sure he intends to try and hold me south of the Don until summer so eventually he will halt and engage in what im hoping is heavy attritional fighting to hold the line.
Lots of Soviet assets have been committed to the northern sector and so it should continue to force Pelton to feed reinforcements to that sector or allow the collapse of the fins.
Will post screen shots as we get towards the end of winter...still in January 1943, and movement is slow---alot of grinding attacks and a slow 1-2 hex advance north towards Rostov in the South.
RE: RE:T83
+1 your commentary. Thanks your efforts. [:)]
RE: RE:T88
T88- Offensives continue as scheduled in each sector of the front.
Far North no ground is gained but all fortifications are stripped from a finnish hex.
Leningrad- 1 hex is gained.
In the Center- The Glorious Soldiers of red army chase out an entire German Corps from Rhzev and occupy the city ending over a year of facist oppression.
Orel- continue to send my glorious soldiers against an uber corps at the gates of orel- no progress but keeping 3 of his best divisions tied down from moving elsewhere.
Voroznevh- several hexes to the NW and to the SW of the city are taken by Soviet forces- less and less fortified hexes each turn- next week Soviet forces should be at the gates of the city.
In the South continued heavy combat pushes the lines closer to Rostov- Soviet forces are now only 30 miles south of the city. Tank armies along with veteran shock armies continue to hammer back the fascist all along the front in this sector. As the line is also pushed back several hexes to the SW of stalingrad.
Basically can Pelton keep my forces from getting to Rostov and crossing the don before it unfreezes or not and still keep checking all of the other offensives that grow in strength each turn as more and more units behind the lines are turned into rifle corps and added to the assaults.
Manpower is no longer an issue, as since the start of the year my manpower grew to 300k and has stayed pretty consistently at that number each turn. Armaments seems to have become a restraint once more, but I think its because of all the Soviet early 1943 ToE changes as im adding like 1k mortars a week and that eats a chunk of armaments on top of all the other demands.
Overall for this game I have managed to keep the battle of attrition in full swing all winter averaging 30k+ axis losses to 70k+ Soviet losses per week. Which for 1943 is probably a pretty realistic exchange rate when you factor in several thousands of the axis losses are axis-allied each week mainly Finns/Italians with some hungarians and romanians here and there.
I will start taking screenshots again 1st week in March and post them once we get a couple turns ahead.
Far North no ground is gained but all fortifications are stripped from a finnish hex.
Leningrad- 1 hex is gained.
In the Center- The Glorious Soldiers of red army chase out an entire German Corps from Rhzev and occupy the city ending over a year of facist oppression.
Orel- continue to send my glorious soldiers against an uber corps at the gates of orel- no progress but keeping 3 of his best divisions tied down from moving elsewhere.
Voroznevh- several hexes to the NW and to the SW of the city are taken by Soviet forces- less and less fortified hexes each turn- next week Soviet forces should be at the gates of the city.
In the South continued heavy combat pushes the lines closer to Rostov- Soviet forces are now only 30 miles south of the city. Tank armies along with veteran shock armies continue to hammer back the fascist all along the front in this sector. As the line is also pushed back several hexes to the SW of stalingrad.
Basically can Pelton keep my forces from getting to Rostov and crossing the don before it unfreezes or not and still keep checking all of the other offensives that grow in strength each turn as more and more units behind the lines are turned into rifle corps and added to the assaults.
Manpower is no longer an issue, as since the start of the year my manpower grew to 300k and has stayed pretty consistently at that number each turn. Armaments seems to have become a restraint once more, but I think its because of all the Soviet early 1943 ToE changes as im adding like 1k mortars a week and that eats a chunk of armaments on top of all the other demands.
Overall for this game I have managed to keep the battle of attrition in full swing all winter averaging 30k+ axis losses to 70k+ Soviet losses per week. Which for 1943 is probably a pretty realistic exchange rate when you factor in several thousands of the axis losses are axis-allied each week mainly Finns/Italians with some hungarians and romanians here and there.
I will start taking screenshots again 1st week in March and post them once we get a couple turns ahead.
RE: RE:T89
T89- Far north and leningrad areas Soviet forces take 1 hex in each sector.
Rhzev- switches hands but Soviet forces drive out the Germans again and this time get two rifle corps into the city as well as clear out a hex to the south so should be hard if not impossible for the Germans to retake now.
Orel- no action
Voroznevh heavy assaults by both sides- Soviets push a shock army to the gates of the city finally.
Bogachar- Soviets have slowly started some offensive action here as well now.
Stalingrad/Rostov sectors Soviets forces continue to make gains here- 20 miles from Rostov now
Rhzev- switches hands but Soviet forces drive out the Germans again and this time get two rifle corps into the city as well as clear out a hex to the south so should be hard if not impossible for the Germans to retake now.
Orel- no action
Voroznevh heavy assaults by both sides- Soviets push a shock army to the gates of the city finally.
Bogachar- Soviets have slowly started some offensive action here as well now.
Stalingrad/Rostov sectors Soviets forces continue to make gains here- 20 miles from Rostov now
RE: RE:T90
T90- OOB at end of Turn
Pelton already threw up an overview of the ground situation so not going to bother posting the maps. You can see the current frontline in his screenshot for T90- I just pushed closer to Rostov- Soviet Forces are now 1 hex from Rostov.
Pelton already threw up an overview of the ground situation so not going to bother posting the maps. You can see the current frontline in his screenshot for T90- I just pushed closer to Rostov- Soviet Forces are now 1 hex from Rostov.
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RE: RE:T90
T91- Continued Soviet pressure at key locations is continuing to draw in all German reserves...Cracks are slowly starting to Appear...a bloody week for both sides.
RE: RE:T90
So .05 is released and Im sure Pelton will want to upgrade as its extremely beneficial to the Germans for LW. Im willing to continue the game but the changes to Soviet Command and OOB are massive based on the force I built and the way I organized my army.
This will de-rail my counteroffensive operations in several key sectors for awhile due to a massive need of AP to re-organize my armies and swap commanders.
The nerf to Soviet Cavalry Corps will massively reduce the effectiveness of all 5 of my shock armies until I can change out commanders or move them to mech Commanded Armies. Not to mention the Soviets dont even have enough competent Mech commanders to switch out all 5 of my shock armies to mech commanders on top of command my tank armies and "Tank" Fronts.
The Changes were ill-thought out about how they effect long term game balance and give no consideration to Soviet AP use or commanders available for the soviets to use to command this sudden massive increase in the need for Soviet mech commanders that doesnt even take effect until halfway into the war.
Not to mention the Soviet player then has to effectively re-gear command and control just to get worse total leadership modifiers than they had before the ToE change to the Cav Corps in 1943...so effectively this design change is yet another massive soviet nerf by forcing the Soviet player to spend yet more AP in an already AP starved Army to not even keep the same units as effective as they were before the "upgrade" happened.
Not to mention the cav Corps with -5 Morale just got overall worse as a unit for no reason. As thats like a 5-10% reduction in unit effectiveness. This wasnt for play balance that I can see it was just cause.
I doubt I will continue to play WiTE after this game but will continue it to completion.
This will de-rail my counteroffensive operations in several key sectors for awhile due to a massive need of AP to re-organize my armies and swap commanders.
The nerf to Soviet Cavalry Corps will massively reduce the effectiveness of all 5 of my shock armies until I can change out commanders or move them to mech Commanded Armies. Not to mention the Soviets dont even have enough competent Mech commanders to switch out all 5 of my shock armies to mech commanders on top of command my tank armies and "Tank" Fronts.
The Changes were ill-thought out about how they effect long term game balance and give no consideration to Soviet AP use or commanders available for the soviets to use to command this sudden massive increase in the need for Soviet mech commanders that doesnt even take effect until halfway into the war.
Not to mention the Soviet player then has to effectively re-gear command and control just to get worse total leadership modifiers than they had before the ToE change to the Cav Corps in 1943...so effectively this design change is yet another massive soviet nerf by forcing the Soviet player to spend yet more AP in an already AP starved Army to not even keep the same units as effective as they were before the "upgrade" happened.
Not to mention the cav Corps with -5 Morale just got overall worse as a unit for no reason. As thats like a 5-10% reduction in unit effectiveness. This wasnt for play balance that I can see it was just cause.
I doubt I will continue to play WiTE after this game but will continue it to completion.
RE: RE:T93 Comment
T93- updated to new patch almost all AP was spent to fix the cavalry change to mech skill for my shock army commanders. Overall lost 1-2 points of command skill on all shock armies and their performance noticeably decreased on the offensive this turn.
North/Leningrad- a hex is taken from the finns in the far north. Leningrad area a swamp hex is taken and several attritional attacks also launched.
Center- Rhzev- continue to beat up the SS panzers that plugging the holes trying to prevent me from grinding down his infantry entrenchments even more. Also launch numerous attritional attacks up and down the line.
Orel- continued to decimate the Sturm division and Wiking division standing in the way to Orel and attritional attacks.
Voronezh- Has been retaken by the Glorious Soldiers of the red army after much bloodshed in the street.
To the SE of Voronezh an encirclement battle has been in progress since last turn. This turn 4 very tired and beat up German divisions were herded into an encirclement at Buturlinovka. They are almost out of ammo and supplies Im sure after being attacked and pushed back through zocs several times. Its looking more and more unlikely the Germans can rescue them as stronger and stronger Soviet elements funnel into the area while German armor is extremely pressed just hold the line all over the eastern front.
Rostov- Heavy back and forth fighting continues...to the East between Rostov and Stalingrad Soviet mobile forces make a massive assault driving an entire German army back 3 hexes towards the don destroying all fortified defense lines in the process. If the first couple turns of April stay snow/blizzard the Don might be crossed in strength as Axis resistance is weakening. Heavy German elements are pinned outside Rostov by a Guards army and shock army pushing hard from the south so will be hard pressed to spare forces for the breach to the east or to run north to their encircled comrades.
Overall a very bloody week- Soviet turn alone on attacks over 40k+ losses for each side.
Will post some frontline pics 1st turn in April
North/Leningrad- a hex is taken from the finns in the far north. Leningrad area a swamp hex is taken and several attritional attacks also launched.
Center- Rhzev- continue to beat up the SS panzers that plugging the holes trying to prevent me from grinding down his infantry entrenchments even more. Also launch numerous attritional attacks up and down the line.
Orel- continued to decimate the Sturm division and Wiking division standing in the way to Orel and attritional attacks.
Voronezh- Has been retaken by the Glorious Soldiers of the red army after much bloodshed in the street.
To the SE of Voronezh an encirclement battle has been in progress since last turn. This turn 4 very tired and beat up German divisions were herded into an encirclement at Buturlinovka. They are almost out of ammo and supplies Im sure after being attacked and pushed back through zocs several times. Its looking more and more unlikely the Germans can rescue them as stronger and stronger Soviet elements funnel into the area while German armor is extremely pressed just hold the line all over the eastern front.
Rostov- Heavy back and forth fighting continues...to the East between Rostov and Stalingrad Soviet mobile forces make a massive assault driving an entire German army back 3 hexes towards the don destroying all fortified defense lines in the process. If the first couple turns of April stay snow/blizzard the Don might be crossed in strength as Axis resistance is weakening. Heavy German elements are pinned outside Rostov by a Guards army and shock army pushing hard from the south so will be hard pressed to spare forces for the breach to the east or to run north to their encircled comrades.
Overall a very bloody week- Soviet turn alone on attacks over 40k+ losses for each side.
Will post some frontline pics 1st turn in April
RE: RE:T93 Comment
As has been stated with what wrong with the game Russian player can now simply win by losing.
This should be over by summer 44. So far your the only one smart enough to figure out whats wrong with the game and exploit the crap out of it as I would.
The combat ratio 43-45 is now not even close to historical levels for 43.
Reussian OOB will not drop off and German will collapse because of this issue and we can expect it to be worse with WitE 2.0 as 2by3 seems to keep ignoring it.
This should be over by summer 44. So far your the only one smart enough to figure out whats wrong with the game and exploit the crap out of it as I would.
The combat ratio 43-45 is now not even close to historical levels for 43.
Reussian OOB will not drop off and German will collapse because of this issue and we can expect it to be worse with WitE 2.0 as 2by3 seems to keep ignoring it.
Beta Tester WitW & WitE