Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
This discussion has prompted me to re-read Radar's AAR. It doesn't give me much hope for Japanese chances. The majority of Rader's attacks ended up costing the Japanese far more than the Soviets: the best results required that the Japanese had overwhelming superiority in numbers, which you can do locally, but not everywhere...

I think you are correct! But it is fun to discuss it!

Absolutely. I was recently looking at the possibility of a pre-emptive strike on the USSR in August of 1945 in the hope of getting some VP's cheaply before the Soviet steamroller smashes Manchuria. Nothing as extensive as an all out invasion: merely the seizure of the isolated coastal bases and possibly Northern Sakhilin.

As nice as the idea is, it doesn't look like it's worth it. Northern Sakhilin would require an amphibious landing at Okha, which by '45 will be a serious fortress. The other, smaller bases may be easier to take, but the question is if they're worth it.

I'd still advocate a pre-emptive strike by the Japanese against the Russians in August '45. Amass your bombers and bomb the airbases and manpower at Vladivostok and elsewhere to give the VVS a bloody nose before the campaign starts.

[HansBolter]

In Focus Pacific (active Soviet version) the border forts for both sides are real bears to bulldoze through.

I know both sides are beefed in this scenario, but the fort LCUs themselves probably are not very different from stock in their ability to seriously slow an advance.

Against the AI in FP, I have already taken Harbin by mid February '42 and have separated Manchuria from China by the end of Feb.

It's pretty darn easy to steamroll Manchuria with the Russians.

I agree with the Moose that a drive to separate the Vlad sector from the north may be ill advised if the Soviets are driving from the North on Harbin.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

In Focus Pacific (active Soviet version) the border forts for both sides are real bears to bulldoze through.

I know both sides are beefed in this scenario, but the fort LCUs themselves probably are not very different from stock in their ability to seriously slow an advance.

Against the AI in FP, I have already taken Harbin by mid February '42 and have separated Manchuria from China by the end of Feb.

It's pretty darn easy to steamroll Manchuria with the Russians.

I agree with the Moose that a drive to separate the Vlad sector from the north may be ill advised if the Soviets are driving from the North on Harbin.

Thanks Hans, I was curious about that. There are a ton of Japanese troops in Manchuria but the AI can't use them well and they aren't in good starting positions, and when Japan doesn't get the benefit of a surprise strike it is very hard on Japan vs. Soviets.

[Lowpe]

I am bombing the manpower at Portland in the hopes of starting fires....will see what happens!

[Lowpe]

Almost clicked on Jocke's AAR again...

Chungking goes well...

[Lowpe]

Oscars and Zero dogfight sweeping Allied planes over Japanese troops in India. Only 3 pilots KIA for the day...

Damage at Chungking is nice...

Bad weather scrubs air raid on Portland.

[Lowpe]

Annette Bay has about 4000 troops, 60 or so AV, and will hold out for a little.

No air attack on Portland weather, rolls, who knows...A squadron from the KB swept Portland however. Seattle has 350+ guns, but Portland is almost empty.

And that is about all the excitement happening. Coal Harbor is 52 percent to level 3 and a large group of Nells and Kates are repairing, training etc.

[Lowpe]

I have a Lilly IIa r&d factory, size 30 repaired, but I am not sure I want to let it go to production. I already have a Lilly 1b factory making the guys. The factory will convert to production at the end of the month.

Lilly Ib is basically a safe plane to stop producing. So the size 34 factory will upgrade to the Lilly IIa, while what do I convert the size 30 r&d factory to?

Most Lilly IIa squadrons go to Lilly IIb divebombers.

I feel fairly comfortable with my Frank A and Oscar and Zero R&D. I am over committed I think to the various Tony lines. I have two George factories, and 2 Jack (only need 1 Jack imho) which seem ok to me.

I don't have any Ki83, and there are 4 Oscar Sentai that upgrade to it (and one then upgrades past it to the Karyu of which I have one factory). Seems a flimsy reason to R&D this guy.

Any ideas?

[Lokasenna]

Seems fairly obvious to move it along to the Lily-IIb.

[Lowpe]

I have one size 60 Lilly IIb factory already going.

[Lowpe]

Bomb Portland with 90 or so Kates. 1 manpower hit, 244 fires, 88 still blazing. Bombing low manpower cities it is really tough to get the fires to do any damage...imho. It was just a test...need to drop way more bombs per plane..

Hastily assembling the Darwin invasion. Battleships and Cruisers here...will go in with a division, brigade, engineers, tank and artillery that are all near 100 percent prep. Opposed by 4000 troops (CD guns!).

Still adjusting to the idea of fighter altitude restrictions. He jumped some Zeroes flying low CAP and gets 2-1. If they had been flying the restriction, it would have been a different story, but how boring to set all fighters to one Altitude. I will play around with altitudes...

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bomb Portland with 90 or so Kates. 1 manpower hit, 244 fires, 88 still blazing. Bombing low manpower cities it is really tough to get the fires to do any damage...imho. It was just a test...need to drop way more bombs per plane..

Hastily assembling the Darwin invasion. Battleships and Cruisers here...will go in with a division, brigade, engineers, tank and artillery that are all near 100 percent prep. Opposed by 4000 troops (CD guns!).

Still adjusting to the idea of fighter altitude restrictions. He jumped some Zeroes flying low CAP and gets 2-1. If they had been flying the restriction, it would have been a different story, but how boring to set all fighters to one Altitude. I will play around with altitudes...

If it's just the CD guns, why not Eben-Emael it and take it by paradrop? Lots of bombing attacks to drive disruption and fatigue through the roof, and the paratrooper should be able to take the base.

If that isn't workable, I'd have a seperate bombardment force with the crusiers, and embed the battleships in the amphib force.

In my experience, after firing counter-bombardment fire, CD gun units tend to have a high level of disruption, even against destroyers. Let the crusiers bombard first (where they're unlikely to get hit) to disrupt the guns and let the battleships soak up the fire (the 9.2in CD guns at Darwin can harm cruisers, but less so on battleships - may as well let the BB's soak the damage)

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bomb Portland with 90 or so Kates. 1 manpower hit, 244 fires, 88 still blazing. Bombing low manpower cities it is really tough to get the fires to do any damage...imho. It was just a test...need to drop way more bombs per plane..

Hastily assembling the Darwin invasion. Battleships and Cruisers here...will go in with a division, brigade, engineers, tank and artillery that are all near 100 percent prep. Opposed by 4000 troops (CD guns!).

Still adjusting to the idea of fighter altitude restrictions. He jumped some Zeroes flying low CAP and gets 2-1. If they had been flying the restriction, it would have been a different story, but how boring to set all fighters to one Altitude. I will play around with altitudes...

If it's just the CD guns, why not Eben-Emael it and take it by paradrop? Lots of bombing attacks to drive disruption and fatigue through the roof, and the paratrooper should be able to take the base.

If that isn't workable, I'd have a seperate bombardment force with the crusiers, and embed the battleships in the amphib force.

In my experience, after firing counter-bombardment fire, CD gun units tend to have a high level of disruption, even against destroyers. Let the crusiers bombard first (where they're unlikely to get hit) to disrupt the guns and let the battleships soak up the fire (the 9.2in CD guns at Darwin can harm cruisers, but less so on battleships - may as well let the BB's soak the damage)

He has three units there now, nothing built up in the area, I am sure Jocke is willing to cede northern Oz, and Perth too most likely. I think a paratroop drop behind at Fenton and a landing to the west with tanks and a race across will do it. Then move the troops in to a safe base rather than risk the frontal attack.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bomb Portland with 90 or so Kates. 1 manpower hit, 244 fires, 88 still blazing. Bombing low manpower cities it is really tough to get the fires to do any damage...imho. It was just a test...need to drop way more bombs per plane..

Hastily assembling the Darwin invasion. Battleships and Cruisers here...will go in with a division, brigade, engineers, tank and artillery that are all near 100 percent prep. Opposed by 4000 troops (CD guns!).

Still adjusting to the idea of fighter altitude restrictions. He jumped some Zeroes flying low CAP and gets 2-1. If they had been flying the restriction, it would have been a different story, but how boring to set all fighters to one Altitude. I will play around with altitudes...

If it's just the CD guns, why not Eben-Emael it and take it by paradrop? Lots of bombing attacks to drive disruption and fatigue through the roof, and the paratrooper should be able to take the base.

If that isn't workable, I'd have a seperate bombardment force with the crusiers, and embed the battleships in the amphib force.

In my experience, after firing counter-bombardment fire, CD gun units tend to have a high level of disruption, even against destroyers. Let the crusiers bombard first (where they're unlikely to get hit) to disrupt the guns and let the battleships soak up the fire (the 9.2in CD guns at Darwin can harm cruisers, but less so on battleships - may as well let the BB's soak the damage)

He has three units there now, nothing built up in the area, I am sure Jocke is willing to cede northern Oz, and Perth too most likely. I think a paratroop drop behind at Fenton and a landing to the west with tanks and a race across will do it. Then move the troops in to a safe base rather than risk the frontal attack.

That's what I did with my game with Loka, although he had Darwin chock full of DEI refugees. Nearly pocketed them, but they managed to break through the cordon before the infantry moved up. An air-landing at Fenton and working your way north sounds like a good idea - you can even fly in extra troops if required.

If it's three units, do you know what they are? One is the static CD unit, the other could be the RAAF unit and perhaps something else?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing




If it's just the CD guns, why not Eben-Emael it and take it by paradrop? Lots of bombing attacks to drive disruption and fatigue through the roof, and the paratrooper should be able to take the base.

If that isn't workable, I'd have a seperate bombardment force with the crusiers, and embed the battleships in the amphib force.

In my experience, after firing counter-bombardment fire, CD gun units tend to have a high level of disruption, even against destroyers. Let the crusiers bombard first (where they're unlikely to get hit) to disrupt the guns and let the battleships soak up the fire (the 9.2in CD guns at Darwin can harm cruisers, but less so on battleships - may as well let the BB's soak the damage)

He has three units there now, nothing built up in the area, I am sure Jocke is willing to cede northern Oz, and Perth too most likely. I think a paratroop drop behind at Fenton and a landing to the west with tanks and a race across will do it. Then move the troops in to a safe base rather than risk the frontal attack.

That's what I did with my game with Loka, although he had Darwin chock full of DEI refugees. Nearly pocketed them, but they managed to break through the cordon before the infantry moved up. An air-landing at Fenton and working your way north sounds like a good idea - you can even fly in extra troops if required.

If it's three units, do you know what they are? One is the static CD unit, the other could be the RAAF unit and perhaps something else?

It's usually a brigade or something at game's start. Nothing a single IJA ID can't handle.


Is this a scenario where none of the Aussies combine higher than a brigade?

[Lowpe]

Another day in March...a little disappointed here. I switched all my Zeroes to defense here at Coal Harbor,but the base is overstacked until I reach another level (2 days).

Only 24 Zeroes were up, and did a good job versus the P40, and even downed a Lightning [X(]; but were pretty worn out for when the 4E arrived. I ended up losing 30 planes on the ground, but no runway damage.

I checked my Zero settings, and I had range set to 12. Oops.

What a different result in sweeps when the Zero is flying at 20K.

[Lowpe]

But lets see what Nells can do over America.

Nells over America! Kind of catchy.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe





He has three units there now, nothing built up in the area, I am sure Jocke is willing to cede northern Oz, and Perth too most likely. I think a paratroop drop behind at Fenton and a landing to the west with tanks and a race across will do it. Then move the troops in to a safe base rather than risk the frontal attack.

That's what I did with my game with Loka, although he had Darwin chock full of DEI refugees. Nearly pocketed them, but they managed to break through the cordon before the infantry moved up. An air-landing at Fenton and working your way north sounds like a good idea - you can even fly in extra troops if required.

If it's three units, do you know what they are? One is the static CD unit, the other could be the RAAF unit and perhaps something else?

It's usually a brigade or something at game's start. Nothing a single IJA ID can't handle.


Is this a scenario where none of the Aussies combine higher than a brigade?

I asked Jocke your question, and he says they can form full divisions.

[Lowpe]

Flipped the turn here at lunch, what a joy early 42 turns are so fast to turn. My 44 turns take close to 2 hours or more.

Another grinding attack on the Ankang road. Liuchow will be mine by nightfall. More LI for Japan.[:)] And to add insult to injury, it is not bombable by HR.

[Lowpe]

Liuchow is ours, industry intact.

Almost 2000 AV, very tank heavy will head north on the road now from Liuchow heading to Kweiyang. 1000AV is at Liuchow, 600 at Canton the rest on the roads.

SL make the attack on the road interesting, some hexes can have 90K troops; most much less.

Jocke does have some troops on that road...so it won't be a stroll in the park. We managed to get some bombing in while he retreated from Liuchow and Wuchow.

But the rail is cut, very important in my book.

In the east,still grinding out the first hex attacks along the Ankang road. His three corps are down to 150 or less in AV each...then we can advance one hex and do it all over again.[:)]