A Grey Steppe Eagle (loki100 vs Vigabrand)

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: xbmoore

Again I am talking server games and not PBeM's. Anyone can be uber reloading 20 times a turn.

Not to steal the thread, but can't you just X out of a server game and the data will not be saved. Then log back in and start again where you left off? Seems you can still do this even on a server game.

[/quote]

It is recorded and if you ask someone will check to see if the person is reloading.

I have had a few people reloading 10+ times per turn needless to say more then a few of my wins were vs reloaders.

Even help bag someone of note for using a program to help cover there reloads.

MT and myself kept data on PBeM and server games People tend to win 90+% of the time playing PBeM games and much much less on server based games.

Our calling card was reserve reaction set up.

If your using the right formation it works 100% of the time, vs a reloader it works less then 50% of the time.

Why I know 100% sure the person masking their reloads were reloading it took someone close to 2 more weeks to figure out how this person was doing it.

We all get a power outage, computer lock up ect once in every 100 turns but not every turn 1 or 2 times +

So if your reloading, stop before you get booted off the server

[chaos45]

Good information to know, thought the Server game saved as you went and thats how it helped to prevent cheating. As Ive noticed it seems to randomly reset losses for the turn and I thought thats when it did the save guess not.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

It is recorded and if you ask someone will check to see if the person is reloading.

I have had a few people reloading 10+ times per turn needless to say more then a few of my wins were vs reloaders.

Even help bag someone of note for using a program to help cover there reloads.

MT and myself kept data on PBeM and server games People tend to win 90+% of the time playing PBeM games and much much less on server based games.

Our calling card was reserve reaction set up.

If your using the right formation it works 100% of the time, vs a reloader it works less then 50% of the time.

Why I know 100% sure the person masking their reloads were reloading it took someone close to 2 more weeks to figure out how this person was doing it.

We all get a power outage, computer lock up ect once in every 100 turns but not every turn 1 or 2 times +

So if your reloading, stop before you get booted off the server

Pelton, don't forget that a couple of years ago you and your buddy MichaelT were the guys who tried to convince everyone that they should play with 105/95 morale settings. Both of you knew very well that there was a bug in the game that turned the entire Wehrmacht into a 99 morale juggernaut. In a way that's cheating too! I always thought that was really mean of you.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Hi,
what is written in german is not from me, it is from another member of the my german forum.
I'm not able to translate this 100%. I'm more afraid, that my translation (or your dutch translation) overlooked some keywords (Feinheiten) and frustrate us. The user wants to epress his surprise, because he follows both AARs (yours and my). And one opinion (not from you, but expressed by most of the followers here) was that this game is over for the german side. You only write how well your position is. ("nachdem er quasi sagte, wie toll es ihm geht"). In my AAR in german I give them the link to your AAR, so that they can see both sides. And read all comments. I think it is normal, that we are both are focussed on our sides and our possiblitys.
I published one PM from you, which is not okay. I apologies for that!
The content from you PM, was your clearification of the low morale and the OOB changes, which reduce the CV from most of your units. And your wish, that the mud will come.
That should show them the reason, why I had success. That it wasn't your fault and you see it coming (reduced CV) and couldn't defend against that.

VigaBrand, really enjoyed your German AAR. Don't listen to the reloading accusations. You played a good game. Lass Dir den Spaß nicht verderben!

[charlie0311]

Hi all,

Since this thread is everywhere, thought I would get in.

I like reloads, easier for us dumbies. Not for combat.
And, you can use saves from important points in the campaign to restart the game. Like Loki and Vbrand could restart from early Spring or late Winter. Not have to start over from Jun 22.

[STEF78]

I looked at the german's AAR

It's a harsh blow and very difficult for the morale.

Not sure if you can recover....

I would like to see your pictures

Courage!!!!

[chaos45]

Back to this AAR off work so checked out the pics on my phone. It's a crappy situation for sure and vigas attack hit a very weak point in the soviet lines for sure. However his panzer swill be very low I. Supply next turn and Loki if he kept playing able to successfully counterattack several of the divisions maybe even get a line in to those three tank corps depending on what is where and its MPs

[Sorta]

Bozo there weren't any reloading accusations toward the Axis player in the previous comments at all (except for you starting it whilst suggesting it while disowning it - a quite beautiful move by the way [&o]- do you play Machiavelli/Diplomacy?).

Pelton "the thread stealer's" comments related to only looking at server games for realistic outcomes due to the reloading potential in PBEM making them unreliable.

Anyway sad to see this AAR end. Especially Lokki's pictures. Also some very informative posts.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

It is recorded and if you ask someone will check to see if the person is reloading.

I have had a few people reloading 10+ times per turn needless to say more then a few of my wins were vs reloaders.

Even help bag someone of note for using a program to help cover there reloads.

MT and myself kept data on PBeM and server games People tend to win 90+% of the time playing PBeM games and much much less on server based games.

Our calling card was reserve reaction set up.

If your using the right formation it works 100% of the time, vs a reloader it works less then 50% of the time.

Why I know 100% sure the person masking their reloads were reloading it took someone close to 2 more weeks to figure out how this person was doing it.

We all get a power outage, computer lock up ect once in every 100 turns but not every turn 1 or 2 times +

So if your reloading, stop before you get booted off the server

Pelton, don't forget that a couple of years ago you and your buddy MichaelT were the guys who tried to convince everyone that they should play with 105/95 morale settings. Both of you knew very well that there was a bug in the game that turned the entire Wehrmacht into a 99 morale juggernaut. In a way that's cheating too! I always thought that was really mean of you.

We did not know as no one know there was a morale bug until there were 20 + new games started after a patch so keep your fairly tales to yourself.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Back to this AAR off work so checked out the pics on my phone. It's a crappy situation for sure and vigas attack hit a very weak point in the soviet lines for sure. However his panzer swill be very low I. Supply next turn and Loki if he kept playing able to successfully counterattack several of the divisions maybe even get a line in to those three tank corps depending on what is where and its MPs

Was he using recon at all?

Hard to hide 20 panzer divisions.

Seems he just became over confident and blind to where the German mobile forces were.

He did not even use the good terrain on one flank as you pointed out.

Don't see how you can balance out things like that.

Plus Vigabrand saw a weak spot and took full advantage of it.


But as you say it is possible Loki could get out of it as smokendave did in our game and get at min a draw.

[MattFL]

From looking at Vigabrand's screens, I think Loki knew full well where the german panzers were. They were mostly about 15 hexes or so south of where the breakthrough occurred with one corps about 15 hexes west. Judging by the hex control at start of German turn, it seems Loki had decided to abandon his defense of Orel and back his line up. I just question why he backed his line up to open ground and not the woods and Zhidra river. He could have had a perfectly straight line running west to east in good terrain, but my guess is he didn't want to give up Bryansk so kept his line further forward in open ground. It was a mistake and he paid for it and to me has nothing to do with any issues with the soviets in '42....

[Sorta]

ORIGINAL: morvael

In .05 soviets get
- better way to attack with large forces at the price of increased casualties (if against strong position)
- hqbu is weaker
- morale 45 in '42
- faster fort building
At the price of
- forts being weaker, dropping faster

Looks like an elegant fix to the WWI problem and allow the Soviets to put up the occasional defence. I assume this will affect ongoing games?

[MattFL]

What exactly is a "better way to attack with large forces"?

How much weaker will the forts be? This is one of those subtle changes that could have a balance effect....

[loki100]

That seemed to have provoked more comment than expected. So apols, let my frustration at the impact of the 40 NM spill over as a reaction to a very good move by vigabrand. Also apols to Morvael, I am in awe at the quality and extent of the 1.08 patching process, its just that this game seems very easy to throw off balance and I do think letting the 40NM drag out from April-September is too much for too long.

I'm not going to respond in any great detail but mattp has misunderstood the problem I had. I'll cover this when that turn comes up but I'd pulled back as far as my MP allowed me to. I didn't want to leave a picket screen (I probably should) as, ironically I was trying not to lose any more in pockets than necessary. The 40 NM has shifted my defensive stacks from being able to force the Germans to concentrate to being pushed aside in hasty attacks.

I think I have lost, but lets see where this works out. Quite simply I can't get my massive manpower reserves out of the reserve pool so I suspect vigabrand can do pac-man tactics for quite some time before the equally hard wired hit to his infantry morale effectively stops the Panzers.

As to cheating and server vs PBEM, this gets a wee bit wearying to be honest. I prefer PBEM as it allows more analysis post event and I think creates the basis for richer more informative AARs. As M60A3TTS says

Just because someone can, doesn't mean everyone does. My $.02

 

sums up my view perfectly. Simple question is why bother? Going by the data in the 1942 thread, it looks like as of T63 my losses, chaos45 and M60A3TTS are pretty much the same which is pretty indicative. The only reason the front line is in a radically different place, is that vigabrand opted to pull back substantially in the winter, which is not what Pelton or smokindave did.

And again, sorry about letting frustration with the hard wired morale problem spill over ... not fair on anyone.

[loki100]

Turn 63: 27 August – 2 September 1942

The end of August, saw a brief reduction in the level of combat. The Germans completed the encirclement of Soviet positions at Kursk, Smolensk and near Boguchar



All these operations could be seen as the final phase of the fighting that had spread across most of August. As such, it offered little information as to German capabilities or intentions. The practical impact of the complete loss of the Ukraine, defeat at Kursk and the blunting of various Soviet offensives was to seriously damage morale at all levels in the Soviet armed forces. For all their efforts, it seemed to be impossible to stall the German attack.

At Sevastopol, despite Soviet attacks on the Romanian airbases, the destruction of the city continued.





OOB

[chaos45]

Loki, I think personal morale aside you are doing fine you still have a very large army, tons of troops/armaments in the pool and as of september have held the Germans further west than any other Soviet player.

Even with the encirclement you are still doing fine unless there is a super worse one coming up.

I got alittle demoralized as well at 100k+ pockets happening every couple turns, but its just the result of the system. The Soviets have the ability to recover as long as you arent losing more than an average of about 50k men per turn...basically you can safely lose 5 or divisions on average per turn to pockets and still be fine.

Is it annoying as a player, I think so yes but its the nature of game at current.

An honestly I have no manpower and not alot in armaments pool either, you have tons of both.....So once you start building new formations they will instantly fill out whereas I usually have to wait 2-3 turns for my new formations to fill up to 90%+ ToE.

You did very well early in the game and took some rought hits in 1942 but you bought yourself a ton of extra padding for 1942 by doing really well in 1941......so all in all seems your doing fine [:)]

Once the winter of 1942 hits you will be able to attack some and provided you keep building up units all winter long you will quickly fill them out to increase you army size again all winter....and his army takes a morale hit and you gain morale in 1943.....the +5/-5 change is close to a 25% total shift in CV towards the Soviets. 5 morale+ on Soviet corps is a huge increase in CV esp your guard Rifle corps they start to become really good from 1943 as they fill up to the new morale levels.

[timmyab]

I'm pleased to see you carry on. Part of what makes for a good commander is the ability to think clearly under pressure and cope with reverses.
Vigabrand seems to be learning fast and the game will probably be a struggle from here onwards, but I'd say you're no worse than drawing at the moment.
The Soviet side will get some help in 42 from the next patch.

[M60A3TTS]

I second timmyab's thoughts. Playing against a competent Axis player now is a mental endurance contest. The frustrations felt in 1942 don't go away in 1943, they simply manifest themselves in new forms. When you get a hold result with an 8-1 manpower advantage after the same panzer division reserve activates for the third time, you'll know what I'm talking about. [;)]

[Sorta]

Well that's buggered my new AAR which was to be called 'Ode to Lokki'.

Need a new title and quick

[charlie0311]

Next time a Pz xx has the temerity to activate three times in one turn, don't get "mad", get "even". Let the Red AF say "hello", Bomb unit (manual), oh, about 3000 planes worth, every day and twice on Sunday makes eight strikes. Yeah, I know , disruption only, but pretty fun, and the activation will be less effective.

Loki's AAR's are soooo great, welcome back, and don't scare me like that again!!