Review: First Impressions

[Jason Petho]

Thank you for the kind words and understanding, Brad!

Jason Petho

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

A couple of observations, after playing a bit.

1) As noted in the pre-release threads, even if a scenario says "HTH," you certainly can profitably play it solo. I'm playing around with Musketeer Revisited as the French and British, and it's working well enough, though the turns of course are a bit lengthy for the AI, as there are a lot of Egyptians.

2) There are a few UI things that I'd like to see worked on. One is the zoom via mousewheel, addressed elsewhere. Another is the linking of F3 to the specific unit selected, also addressed elsewhere. Beyond that though, here's a few that come to mind:

*On the F2 screen, you can hit R for range, but you can't hit R to remove the window. Seems counter intuitive.
*On the jump map, hitting J again doesn't remove the map (this has been an issue with all of Tiller's games for some reason). Again, unintuitive, if minor.
*I don't see any way to really tell what the hexside modifiers are for a hex, or even to tell definitively what the hexsides are, other than by referencing the illustrations in the manual. I may have missed something, but I'd love a feature as in the Panzer Campaigns games, where if you right-click on the info box for a hex, it gives you the hexside features (road, rail, river, etc.).
*Speaking of unit boxes, if you have U selected for the unit stack, the little game graphic makes reading the hex info hard, as the text gets washed out by the illustrations of the tanks or whaever. Minor, but annoying.
*Is there a chart of the 2D counter symbols used? I know most of 'em, but some are a bit different than I'm used to. I may have missed this one.
*Quite often, ctrl+key combos simply don't work. I think it may be a modality issue, as the game beeps when you try the command but it works from the drop down menus. OpFire is one, addressed in other threads, but pretty much all of them have this issue. It's mentioned in the manual so it may not be fixable, but it's annoying.
*I've tried to fire smoke and have had zero success, but I don't know why, even when the unit has "SmokeFiring" or whatever listed as one of its abilities.
*The counter colors are sometimes too closes to each other. For instance, in Musketeer, the Brits and Egyptians, both 3D bases and 2D counters, are really similar. I've, um, attacked my own guys this way.

The AI seems pretty decent. I'm no great player for sure, but I'm seeing mostly decent moves from the AI. Except for one thing--trucks that rolled into a hex my guys held, and just stayed there. Usually, the AI rolls loaded trucks up to the front, drops off guys, and runs the trucks away. That's what I'd expect. Occasionally, though, I've seen the AI drive into a hex filled with (in this case) British paras, and then sit there, forcing me to assault or fire into my own hex to get rid of them! Ballsy bastards, to be sure.

As for graphics in general, clearly a lot of work went into this. It still has the legacy of its age, so no, you aren't going to get full Maya 3D modeled units and state of the art normal mapping, but hey, the stuff is recognizable and generally good looking (though I wiah there was an even closer zoom, as I run a 24" monitor). The 2D counters are very helpful; thanks a bunch for those.

Definitely worth forty bucks.

[budd]

are these the counter symbols your talking about. there some new ones i didn't recognize either.
As far as smoke, do you have a smoke allotment in the scenario? bottom of the screen says how much smoke is available for the scenario, the smoke symbol bottom left. Usually if you can't do something there is a message on the bottom bar that tells you why, it's helped me a bunch. I'd also like to be able to keep the jump map on screen if i choose, for large maps it makes it easy to get around.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

A couple of observations, after playing a bit.

[snip]

*On the F2 screen, you can hit R for range, but you can't hit R to remove the window. Seems counter intuitive.
*On the jump map, hitting J again doesn't remove the map (this has been an issue with all of Tiller's games for some reason). Again, unintuitive, if minor.
*I don't see any way to really tell what the hexside modifiers are for a hex, or even to tell definitively what the hexsides are, other than by referencing the illustrations in the manual. I may have missed something, but I'd love a feature as in the Panzer Campaigns games, where if you right-click on the info box for a hex, it gives you the hexside features (road, rail, river, etc.).
*Speaking of unit boxes, if you have U selected for the unit stack, the little game graphic makes reading the hex info hard, as the text gets washed out by the illustrations of the tanks or whaever. Minor, but annoying.
*Is there a chart of the 2D counter symbols used? I know most of 'em, but some are a bit different than I'm used to. I may have missed this one.
*Quite often, ctrl+key combos simply don't work. I think it may be a modality issue, as the game beeps when you try the command but it works from the drop down menus. OpFire is one, addressed in other threads, but pretty much all of them have this issue. It's mentioned in the manual so it may not be fixable, but it's annoying.
*I've tried to fire smoke and have had zero success, but I don't know why, even when the unit has "SmokeFiring" or whatever listed as one of its abilities.
*The counter colors are sometimes too closes to each other. For instance, in Musketeer, the Brits and Egyptians, both 3D bases and 2D counters, are really similar. I've, um, attacked my own guys this way.

Thank you for your ideas and feedback! Here's a few comments:

[*] Range, Jump map; duly noted.
[*] Hexside Modifiers, ditto
[*] Unit Box: now that you mention it, the hex info is written as-is, while Unit info are inserted within their Infoboxes. We'd need to consider a 'Terrainbox' for instance. Meanwhile: I can put together an all-black Blankbox with no graphics as a mod, would that help?
[*] Counter info. Do you refer to the 420 or so NATO icons? I can put together a PDF with them all explained, if helps?
[*] Ctrl+key modality; agreed, annoying at times. Since I use shortcuts extensively, and have the Hex Infobox on (U-key), what helps is I move the mouse over the particular unit Infobox on the side, and then the ctrl+key works. Go figure.
[*] Smoke: as Budd mentioned, are you sure you had smoke available?
[*] Counter colors; with Brits I tried to stick to their color as with Panzer Leader counters. Some of them are close to one another. They are easy to mod, I am hoping to see a lot of counter variants soon in the Mod forum!

Cheers,

[VegasOZ]

I seem to be missing a scenario.

You know, the one where the IDF slashes through the hapless Arabs like Crap Through a Goose...

Ya, that one. I don't seem to have it.

Has anyone else found that they are missing that scenario too?


LOL

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: VegasOZ

I seem to be missing a scenario.

You know, the one where the IDF slashes through the hapless Arabs like Crap Through a Goose...

Ya, that one. I don't seem to have it.

Has anyone else found that they are missing that scenario too?


LOL

It is there! Look harder... It is the one where you're playing the Arabs. That's how I found them [:D]

[76mm]

I totally agree about the hexside info and UnitBox. Which file do we need to mod for a solid color blankbox? Also, hopefully someone will post a blank music file for the startup screen.

I also have a couple of UI suggestions:
1) Please show objectives on the max zoom out map and the jump map; don't need to show victory points obviously, but just show a colored highlight where they are (like in Panzer Campaigns). On some of the bigger maps it is hard to orient yourself otherwise.

2) Would it be possible to add a toggle to show units which have moved OR fired? I see the toggles for units which moved and units which fired, but often I just want to see if a unit hasn't done anything at all yet...

3) As Wombat mentioned, there are a lot of funky NATO symbols in the game--I thought I knew them all but it looks like I was mistaken... Is there a list of the symbol types in the manual?

4) I have to say that for the first time ever I've found myself playing in 3D mode--the terrain is much easier to read in 3D, and the 3D icons are pretty good at max zoom, although pretty much indistinguishable once you zoom out at all. That said, I really like the beautiful, crisp 2D NATO counters--is there a way to use the 3D terrain with the 2D counters?

5) I'm sure this is a matter of personal taste, but I'd prefer a bit more monotone movement sound effects; currently the game often sounds more like a construction yard than a battlefield as units move around, jeeps sound like they have sirens, etc.

6) Again, a minor point, but while I'm at it: the various opening screens (for scenario selection, etc.) are really kind of clunky. On the scenario selection screen for example, isn't there a way that we can use a scroll bar and choose scenarios with the mouse rather than using the up/down arrows? I know it is a minor thing but seeing a 1980s-style GUI as the first thing when you enter the game is a bit off-putting and generally inconsistent with the otherwise excellent quality of graphics in the game.

7) I suspect that this is user-error, but I am having a really hard time keeping track of which units belong to which formations; I know that there is a organization toggle, but I'm having a hard time understanding it--sometimes I click on a unit and a few other units are highlighted, other times practically every unit on the map lights up, and I don't see how to tell which unit is which... In the Panzer Campaigns games, you could tell by right clicking on the unit box, is there similar functionality here? (I'm still reading the manual, so please excuse if this is explained there).

Sorry for the constructive criticism but since you will be improving the game over the next few years I want to make sure that these minor points are raised earlier rather than later.

[Crossroads]

Thanks 76mm, everyone, keep those ideas coming in [:)]

[*] I am putting later today a mod out with an all-black Blankbox0 graphic (The one used in the sidebar, which in official lingo is called 'Hex Infobox')
[*] Also later today, a document explaining all NATO symbols.

As for the Highlight Organization, it highlights within the context of the unit selected. To see the full organization, you'd need to select the desired HQ or Commander, then the full organization they command would be highlighted.

Front End UI improvement is on our wishlist. Not for CS:ME 1.01 (minor updates) I am afraid (assuming here though) but perhaps for Vietnam, and then retrospectively to CS:ME 1.1 (major updates).

The key difference bw. 2D and 3D views is that with 3D every unit has its own set of graphics files. There's hundreds of them. With 2D, the graphic files are nation specific sets, which themselves can contain many icons. Intermixing the two is not likely an easy task.

Sound files. I have purchased a new Sound Editor, so maybe with it I can achieve a common dynamic level to all sound files...

[Crossroads]

Everyone:

We've already got quite an extensive Wish List for CS:ME 1.01 and Vietnam by ourselves, so no deadlines for new stuff. Important ones take priority, minor nags might take a while, some of them will never be implemented, likely.

Just a friendly reminder before anyone gets their hopes too high.

[:)]

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
As for the Highlight Organization, it highlights within the context of the unit selected. To see the full organization, you'd need to select the desired HQ or Commander, then the full organization they command would be highlighted.

But my problem is I don't know which unit is the desired HQ...I click on highlight HQ and see which units are HQs, but what unit do they command? Then I highlight organization and see what units they command, but not the name of the unit, higher units, etc. Like I said, I think I'm missing something here...

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
Front End UI improvement is on our wishlist. Not for CS:ME 1.01 (minor updates) I am afraid (assuming here though) but perhaps for Vietnam, and then retrospectively to CS:ME 1.1 (major updates).

Cool; not a big priority as a purely cosmetic issue but I think putting some lipstick on the old girl might help with sales.

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
The key difference bw. 2D and 3D views is that with 3D every unit has its own set of graphics files. There's hundreds of them. With 2D, the graphic files are nation specific sets, which themselves can contain many icons. Intermixing the two is not likely an easy task.

Thanks, it sounds like it is not as easy as copying the NATO symbol files into the 3D folder, so I'll shelve that idea for now. I do enjoy playing in 3D in max zoom, but not once zoomed out at all.

One more issue with 3D--there does not seem to be a "hot spot" indicator for the selected hex in 3D? Directly related to this point, is there any way to cancel an air attack? Because of the lack of a hot spot indicator, I just accidentally called an airstrike on some of my own units.

[76mm]

One more minor thing--I just clicked on a hex with a bunch of enemy units. The unit box on the right shows five units and part of a sixth, but there does not seem to be any way to scroll down to see the rest of the 6th unit, or if there are any more? Using the arrow key scrolls the map.

[Crossroads]

Regarding Org Highlight: select any unit, say it happens to be III Platoon, then all its HQs are highlighted: I Platoon, Bn, Regt, ..., so on. Then you see the HQs and can pick one of them. Or, use the Find Organization (or whatsit called, not at my PC atm) dialog to highlight full organizations per the one you click in the listing. Hope this helps.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

One more minor thing--I just clicked on a hex with a bunch of enemy units. The unit box on the right shows five units and part of a sixth, but there does not seem to be any way to scroll down to see the rest of the 6th unit, or if there are any more? Using the arrow key scrolls the map.

You can drag the panel up and down with mouse. Select, then drag.

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

Thanks for the great responses--the CS:ME team is really on the ball .

[VegasOZ]

I won a battle.

Yes, big victory.

Those "Arabs" will think twice before messing with me again...

Oh, and I did not touch the advantage slider...not even once...I was not even aware that there was an advantage slider...why would I even be aware of such a thing?

Fair and Square, beat 'em... Yep, no help from the advantage slider at all.

Ah, very satisfying to actually win one.


LOL

[berto]

[8|]

[:D]

[Bradley62]

Fun fun fun guys, got to hand it to you. Use to play CS many moons ago and was a little skeptical you could bring it back to life, but wow, great job! Having a blast just playing some of the tutorials. Can't wait to get to the main course. Next version first day buy for me.

[Crossroads]

Thanks Bradley for your kind comments, glad to hear you like it! [:)]

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: berto
There's simply no way going forward that we would continue to upgrade ("mega patch") three-games-in-one with well over 700 scenarios and many thousands of data files total. Whether as a freebie (which last year's JTCS 2.0* was), or as an all-in-one $40-50 new game. That's way too much content for a mid-priced game. (Don't forget the "living game" part and the promise of post-release new content and back ported engine updates.) If that were the proposition, JTCS 2.02 would be the end of the line, no more EF, WF or RS updates of any kind, finis.

Just curious. Are there any more CSME improvements that could be retrofitted to a possible JTCS 2.03 or did you guys already do all that you could with the old game engine and the new features that went into CSME? I won't mind buying WF 3.0 someday and maybe EF 3.0 also, but until then JTCS 2.02 is running well. A little something more would be nice but again 2.02 is still a very nice upgrade. Thank you!

[berto]

The major new features in ME 1.00, if back ported to JTCS, would involve massive reworking of the data. To be sure, it's not just code. The minor features? Unfortunately, the "common codebase" has bifurcated, and it's just not feasible picking through the ME codebase and retrofitting isolated bits and pieces onto the JTCS codebase.

Then, too, we have totally reformatted the ME codebase. The JTCS codebase retains the original layout and style. Which would make it all the harder to apply ME changes to JTCS.

(The "ME codebase", the "common codebase", will also support the new WF 3.0 etc. But only with the massive data updates.)

No, sorry, v2.02 is the end of the line for JTCS. We haven't even looked at the JTCS code in the past year. Revisiting it is most unlikely.