AE TOURNAMENT REDUX: ERSTAD(J) VS ADM SPRUANCE(A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

erstad
Posts: 1944
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Midwest USA

RE: JAPANESE AC PRODUCTION AT END OF WAR

Post by erstad »

ORIGINAL: richlove

So who won the dinner at The Winery Restaurant?

That's an interesting question.

In game terms Spruance won. The allies on on the verge of autovictory; one a-bomb or another week or two and it would been official.

But it's a little more complicated. I don't believe an IJ player can win the game, on points, with two competent players WHO ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO VICTORY POINTS AND CARE. I emphasize that last part, because different people play the game with different objectives in mind, and that's OK. It is possible for a JFB to avoid allied autovictory if the allied player doesn't care about the points.

Problem is, there aren't a lot of games that go into 1945/46 to provide good yardsticks. So, I don't think it's black and white.

That said, if I had gotten into 1946 with the position I have, I might think of that as a victory. In this case the game ended around the historical date, but with the Allies in possession of most of china, in addition to all the other stuff (I think the only major thing I own beyond historical is Okinawa, and if Spruance wanted it he could take it in pretty short order with his air and naval superiority).

That, coupled with the subjective sense that I've been outplayed on more occasions than vice-versa, leads me to declare Admiral Spruance the clear winner. I'll happily buy him dinner if and when I get out there. I do think I acquitted myself reasonably well, but I don't feel like I won.


User avatar
racndoc
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Newport Coast, California

TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by racndoc »

richlove..... I told Dave that if he ever made it out to Newport Beach that I would treat him at the new "Winery Restaurant" there. Dave Erstad's cousin....Darrin Erstad....was an allstar center fielder for the LA Angels and he is a part owner of the Winery Restaurant so if I treat Dave I would hope that he asks his famous cousin to dinner as I am a huge Angels fan.




TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS


So I already listed the top gun Allied fighter pilots so I thought I would list the top gun Allied fighter squadrons.


1)347FG/68thFS 488 kills; lost 196 in A2A combat; P-51D
2)8thFG/80thFS 481 kills; lost 118 in A2A combat; P-47N
3)51stFG/26thFS 473 kills; lost 97 in A2A combat; P-51D
4)51stFG/16thFS 447 kills; lost 153 in A2A combat; P-51D
5)VF-2 422 kills; lost 24 in A2A combat; F4U-1A
6)51stFG/26thFS 420 kills; lost 108 in A2A combat; P-51D
7)VF-6 392 kills; lost 44 in A2A combat; F4U-4
8)348FG/342FS 360 kills; lost 76 in A2A combat; P-51D
9)VMF-411 358 kills; lost 58 in A2A combat; F4U-1D
10)343rdFG/11thFS 348 kills; lost 132 in A2A combat; P-51D
11)VF-1 304 kills; lost 9 in A2A combat; F6F-5
12)351stFG/39thFS 301 kills; lost 141 in A2A combat; P-47N
13)VMF-422 273 kills; lost 50 in A2A combat; F4U-1A
14)VRF-6F 269 kills; lost 7 in A2A combat; F4U-1D
15)VMF-222 264 kills; lost 50 in A2A comba; F4U-1D
16)VRF-2F 260 kills; lost 5 in A2A combat; F4U-1D



A couple of observations here. First....the 51stFG was in the thick of the action the entire war and killed 1340 Japanese AC.

Second....the USN and USMC carrier squadrons lost far fewer planes than the USAAF squadrons. This indicates that the US carrier squadrons had much more of a performance advantage over Japanese carrier AC than did the USAAF fighters over the Japanese land based fighters.

User avatar
racndoc
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Newport Coast, California

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by racndoc »

Hey Dave...thanx for posting and welcome to the thread!
User avatar
racndoc
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Newport Coast, California

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by racndoc »

Dave...you mentioned that the subs didnt really affect the Japanese economy but the closure of the South China Sea did. Could you please elaborate on how the closure of Japanese SLOC from the SRA to the Home Islands affected your AC production, naval production, research and pilot training decisions.

Thanx!
User avatar
racndoc
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Newport Coast, California

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by racndoc »

Hey Im finally rated as 5 stars. It must take 2500 posts for that. Only took me 11 years to achieve that.
erstad
Posts: 1944
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:40 pm
Location: Midwest USA

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by erstad »

Darrin Erstad....was an allstar center fielder for the LA Angels and he is a part owner of the Winery Restaurant so if I treat Dave I would hope that he asks his famous cousin to dinner as I am a huge Angels fan.

Second cousin, actually. And sadly I've never met the guy, or had interaction of any kind with him. Sorry to disappoint!

User avatar
racndoc
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Newport Coast, California

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by racndoc »

Something else that shows how small this world is. Ive lived almost my entire life in California but Dave and I both attended the University of Minnesota in the 1980s. Its possible that we might have met 30 years ago.
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 20292
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by BBfanboy »

About the USN/USMC vs USAAF fighter performance - my first thought was that the carriers were not able to stay at the front line all the time, unlike air bases, and because they move around carriers are harder for the enemy to find and attack. Would that not result in fewer casualties?

And the USAAF would have been carrying the load in the early part of the war when their pilots were less trained and experienced that the Japanese ones.

Granted that carrier aircraft have to be made tough to handle the landings, so there is some truth to that part of their advantage!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 20292
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by BBfanboy »

erstad: Just wanted to thank you personally for the wild ride! Anyone who can keep KB nearly intact against Spruance for 80% of the war is a great opponent!
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
Eambar
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:36 pm

RE: TOP GUN ALLIED FIGHTER SQUADRONS

Post by Eambar »

Thanks to both AdmSpruance and erstad for a great game and an exciting AAR. Followed it for the last half in real time, learnt a lot about the game. Much appreciated!

Cheers,
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”