Russian Airbase in Syria

[Orm]

Since Russia has begun bomb targets in Syria I think that any further discussions about this will be both hot and political. I suggest that it is time to close this thread.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34399164

[Jagdtiger14]

Wow...conspiracy theory ramblings (especially in the general forum) equal locked threads? I'm anti-conspiracy, but really?

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Since Ukraine broke away and has had free and fair elections (post Kuchma sp? perhaps)...there has been a pro-Ukraine candidate and a pro-Russia candidate. Take a look at historical Ukrainian election maps and you will see the results show Ukraine east of the Dnieper River and Crimea have always identified more closely to Moscow. Perhaps the solution here could be to allow eastern Ukraine independence or annexation to Russia, but allow western Ukraine into the EU and NATO, and allow military systems to be placed there.

Sounds like a reasonably fair compromise. If the majority of Eastern Ukranians want to be part of Russia, then let them have at it all they want. God, it seems like the world is an enormous mess right now. [:(]

[operating]

I think it would be real interesting to see if the Russians deploy a larger combined force into Syria. How many rubles would that cost? They are only doing what the west should have done in the first place, even if it was only to create a safe zone for the Syrian population. It's been apparent to the casual observer for some-time, that Assad is the better of the worst choices to have a government in Syria (or what's left of it). Personally, I'd like to see a free and independent Kurdistan, they deserve to have there own state, they got screwed by Brittan and France post WW I.

[Capt. Harlock]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Since Russia has begun bomb targets in Syria I think that any further discussions about this will be both hot and political. I suggest that it is time to close this thread.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34399164

That would be a pity. I tend to be in favor of keeping threads open as long as possible, since some interesting and useful information can always appear -- such as the link you have kindly provided.

Incidentally, one hour's notice does not seem like a lot. IIRC the carrier-launched U.S. airstrikes require more than that to reach their target areas.

[Jagdtiger14]

I'm not at all a fan of VP Biden. That being said...back in I think 2006 or so he recommended Iraq being split up into three separate countries. At the time I laughed him off (which is easy to do) and thought Iraq as a nation should have the chance to succeed. Now that we know its not working (or ever going to work), what Biden said back then makes a lot of sense to me now. I think its too late now as we've left Iraq, the Iranians have defacto control, and the Kurds have been abandoned.

A lot of the problems we see today in many places in the world are due to how colonial lines were drawn to suit colonial powers rather than looking at the ethnic groups that actually live there. The same thing happened in 1919 in Europe. Hitler was able to take advantage of that then. I think the Kurds deserve their own state, and they are the only one's I'm rooting for over there.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

A lot of the problems we see today in many places in the world are due to how colonial lines were drawn to suit colonial powers rather than looking at the ethnic groups that actually live there. The same thing happened in 1919 in Europe.

warspite1

Let's face it - Colonial powers, individual countries, groups of countries acting in concert, the UN - it simply does not matter who has tried to come up with borders down the centuries - what is easy on paper is next to impossible in practice. Somebody always wants what the other guy has or one ethnic/religious group has too much power or this piece of territory historically belongs to x or blah blah - the list goes on. Fact is man will always find a reason to go to war with his fellow man.

[Lecivius]

I'm still trying to get my head around a headline on CNN.

"Russian warships launch airstrikes against ISIS in Syria"

Is this a Yogi-ism?

[Jagdtiger14]

Do the Russians have a carrier over there?...that would probably be the only way that could happen...of course the USS Wisconsin was also able to pull something like that off in 1991. By the way, the Russians did not launch any kind of strikes against ISIS, they launched strikes against the one group the US (and I think Europe) supports fighting Assahd.

[GaryChildress]

Between western airstrikes on ISIS and Russian strikes on the rest, Assad should be pretty well covered. What an utter mess! And BTW, did I metion this is a complete mess... [:(]

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm still trying to get my head around a headline on CNN.

"Russian warships launch airstrikes against ISIS in Syria"

Is this a Yogi-ism?

Nope I never said that.

[Mobius]

The Russians are bombing. I just hope they don't hit any of our (US) 9 Free-Syrian army soldiers. Afterall it cost $5million each to train them. OTOH if they can't be found they might be in Germany by now.

[Zap]

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm still trying to get my head around a headline on CNN.

"Russian warships launch airstrikes against ISIS in Syria"

Is this a Yogi-ism?

Nope I never said that.

RIP Yogi. How did you post this from the other side?

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

Guys, any more of the conspiracy theory ramblings and I will lock this.

Cheers

Pip

So what constitutes "conspiracy theory" and when do Covert Operations Doctrine's cross over into "conspiracy theories"? Isnt a Coup d'etat also a "conspiracy theory"?

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

Joseph M, KISSMEYOUFOOL, that is a very good video.

Thanks. [:D]

Obama, Putin sharply disagree over chaos in Syria | Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09 ... -on-syria/

[operating]

Yesterday one cobra ate the head, body and tail of another cobra. Now which cobra is the better cobra?

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

Putin details Obamas affiliation with ISIS

[Jagdtiger14]

I have no love for Obama and agree with the opening premise of the article, but this article does have an interesting Ed Note in the middle of it.

Just because it is written does not always make it so.

On another note: It was revealed today that the US bombed a "hospital" (Doctors without Borders)...could be militants ran into the place for cover and there was no way to tell what it was from the air, but there is a bit of hoopla about it today in the news (Media and pundits: "could be criminal")...so if it is criminal will they go after the commander in chief of the armed forces that did this?...the same media and others were quick to go after GW and Cheney.

[Rising-Sun]

I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to steal stockpile of weapons from the past and/or trade with warmongers, I am sure they have some AA defense in that areas. When the rebels overran Afghanistan and Iraq, many stockpile of weapons were taken. Now I am not sure if Obama ordered the troops to withdraw from both zones, imo it was a biggest mistake ever. It take years to get the whole regions to settle down and build a better government as well communities for the people. Now it turned out a hellhole over there on both zones. So now most of them are pissed and becoming terrorist for those who started it.

[elxaime]

I am in the camp of those who question that this is some genius move by Putin. Remember, a year or so ago everyone thought Putin was a genius on Ukraine, but that didn't turn out as he probably expected. I think Syria will be even a worse choice. This is a classic situation where something looks good in the short run, but lacks logic longer term.

If this turns even more into a sectarian war, the odds don't favor the Russia/Iran/Iraq/Hezbollah coalition. The Sunnis are not just the majority in Syria, but also globally. And there are plenty of countries besides the US standing ready to escalate. The Saudi's and their Gulf alliance are coming to see this as a existential struggle. If the Russians promote the Kurds, the Turks will see it the same way - as a fight for the existence of Turkey in its current borders. And if the Russian strategy is to de-populate opposition areas and send them as a refugee wave towards Europe, that will also backfire with EU countries already upset over what is being done in Ukraine.

The only way out is some sort of agreement where all the countries accommodate some sort of transition and then can turn their attention to eliminating ISIS. The sticking point of Assad can probably be finessed. But the opposition won't be part of any agreement that keeps him in power over a united Syria. I don't see how the Russian escalation achieves this.

Unlike Ukraine, the Russians and their allies do NOT have escalation dominance in Syria. Even if the US were to step aside, the Turks and Gulf countries, not to mention Egypt and probably at some point Pakistan, will increase their military support. Beyond the "official" support for the rebels are all the private donors, some of whom give money to the extremists.