The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Does anybody know how to “trick” these units into going where I want them to go?

I gave orders to move as indicated by the notes but you can see by the movement arrows that the units want to take the scenic route. I know this has to do with a valid supply path but it makes no sense that the units will not go where I want since there are already units in the destination hex with ample supply.

Hexside control. The both the top and bottom units can't move south-east as the Allies own both hexsides and the hex itself. Kick the Chinese units out first and then you can move.

[el lobo]

Let's try a different shot. Hopefully you can see the hex sides better. Both sides of the subject hexes look green to me.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Let's try a different shot. Hopefully you can see the hex sides better. They look green to me.

Green means Allied control, Red means Japanese hexside control.

For you, green is bad, red is good!

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Let's try a different shot. Hopefully you can see the hex sides better. They look green to me.

Green means Allied control, Red means Japanese hexside control.

For you, green is bad, red is good!

Ahhhhhh, * slap-up-side the head *. It doesn't mean stop-go? Duhh.[:(]

[GetAssista]

Couple additional thoughts to raw materials convoys setup. First, pay attention to refuelling ports - usually you would want to tick "Do not refuel" for convoys, so that they not suck fuel from the destination (HA). Second, there are few escorts at start so small convoys will be poorly protected, and bigger escorted convoys tend to have fewer casualties given the same haul.

Next are my personal preferences, more on the aesthetic side than practical one. I never build AKs except those big tanker conversions.
I like to make my convoys neat and efficient, so I use Tracker panel for determining # of ships and use one type of ship for each particular route. Usually most of my regular hauling is short route and done with Adens. I earmark all speed=15+ xAKs (+ Tohos) for troops usage and only use ~10 Yusen-N to get res+oil from Sakhalin. I earmark Limas (left from AKE buildup) for occasional long hauls. You really do not need to haul res from anywhere except Hokkaido + Sakhalin + China/Korea, but I'm uncomfortable with leaving piles of res rotting in DEI or Nauru =) All the rest 10-12 speed ships go to frontlines for high risk supply runs / cannon fodder etc.
Oh, 12 speed xAKLs are good to get res out of the small DEI ports into Java/Singers

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

You really do not need to haul res from anywhere except Hokkaido + Sakhalin + China/Korea, but I'm uncomfortable with leaving piles of res rotting in DEI or Nauru =)

Thanks GA.

That is the truth re the bold above. For Hokkaido and Sakhalin I have the convoys mentioned above in addition to 8 x 3 Daigen Class from each island set-up from week one hopping ant-power would work but so far I have not been able to haul resources out fast enough.

[el lobo]

Mar 21– 28, 1942, Turns 105 - 112

In the P.I.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese forces CAPTURE Iba !!!

Except for Bataan, this completes Luzon.

On Java.
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Japanese forces CAPTURE Djokjakarta !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Tjepoe !!!
Japanese forces CAPTURE Soerakarta !!!

In a few days will be knocking on Soreabaja's door with three divisions, two armor units, and ancillary units.

In China we are still doing the Sian Shuffle. I don't know if he is making a stand or an organized retreat but either way he is doing a good job. His chess playing skills have served him well here.

[el lobo]

Here is where I am on A/C production and r&d.

Questions, comments, illumination of errors, requested and welcome.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Here is where I am on A/C production and r&d.

Questions, comments, illumination of errors, requested and welcome.

Trying to sort out your table here, not used to the format on my side.

Fighters: You have roughly 3x the number of groups of Oscar vs A6M. Your production should mimic that or it means you are not using your IJA groups enough, over using your IJN.
The issue with that is that you don't have enough training groups for the IJN so you will struggle with pilot exp and that will end up hurting you. Look at how your groups are disposed and see if this is true. If so, take action as you see fit.

Most of your plans show that you will convert your RnD to production when you finish your current model. It looks to leave you with very few RnD after '43. So you have decided on final models? And your plan is not to try to accelerate them much?

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Trying to sort out your table here, not used to the format on my side.

Charts and spreadsheet are like art. Beauty is in the eye of the creator. [8D]

Fighters: You have roughly 3x the number of groups of Oscar vs A6M. Your production should mimic that or it means you are not using your IJA groups enough, over using your IJN.
The issue with that is that you don't have enough training groups for the IJN so you will struggle with pilot exp and that will end up hurting you. Look at how your groups are disposed and see if this is true. If so, take action as you see fit.

When you say “groups”, then I am thinking that you may be way ahead of me in your thinking and perhaps misinterpreting my chart. I am still way back to what you talked about in Post #142. IOW, this is just my plan for model selection. For example, I think that my choices for Army fighters above are pretty much as what we discussed prior, except I added the Ki-93.

I have gone through each of the other type of a/c model types like you suggested (i.e. Navy fighters, TBs, DB,s etc.) and this chart is the result.

I have just started looking at Army fighter groups and like we discussed, I have a lot of Nate groups that need to upgrade and the chart above now defines my selection choices.

When it comes to the groups themselves, it seems to me that I do not have a choice of what type or how many groups I have. They are either already active in the game or set in the que. The only choice I have, as far as type, is to what I upgrade the a/c. Is that correct?

One other choice that have is the size of carrier and CS based groups. Obviously I can expand the size of some my Navy groups. I have done that, but as of yet I have not used any of these expanded carrier groups in battle but only for increased pilot training. I am using some of the expanded Float Planes groups for asw but most of the other FP groups are on land, training.

Most of your plans show that you will convert your RnD to production when you finish your current model. It looks to leave you with very few RnD after '43. So you have decided on final models? And your plan is not to try to accelerate them much?

My next big r&d challenge is figuring out what factories to let go into production, which ones to move to the next model and which ones to convert. A lot of what I ended-up on this chart is a result of my not planning this all out prior to the game start. Some of it will work-out OK and some will cost me extra supply. A lot of this will depend on how I decide to use my groups and that is going to be the topic of many more discussions, I hope.

Does that clear anything up or muddy the water?

How can I change the chart to make it more understandable?

[Lowpe]

Take screen pictures.[;)] I too am lost.[&:]

[GetAssista]

- Ki-100 is great bomber killer that is also able to be R&D-ed quite a bit. Switch Tony R&D factories from 1a to it when repaired, research and then produce it.
- No problems with training IJN pilots in gamey game at all. Those 81 size squadrons rock + after training you can put 70/70 air/def pilots into FP groups and fly CAP to build xp.
- Screw Ki-44-IIb (cannon can't hit broad side of the barn), switch factories directly to IIc when IIa is ready
- E15K1 Norm? <- good!
- You would need to produce some Rufes as there are several groups using those, can train your fighter pilots
- You research Mavises but no Emilies? Should not it be the other way around?
- Is Zero night fighter of any use? I recalled 2-engine NFs are usually good, do not have much experience with those myself
- Me personally would put more factories into Judy, them are your main CV hitting power (500/800kg bombs are kings) and have long R&D chain to benefit from

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Trying to sort out your table here, not used to the format on my side.

Charts and spreadsheet are like art. Beauty is in the eye of the creator. [8D]

Hey, NP. I get all sorts of stuff all day.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Fighters: You have roughly 3x the number of groups of Oscar vs A6M. Your production should mimic that or it means you are not using your IJA groups enough, over using your IJN.
The issue with that is that you don't have enough training groups for the IJN so you will struggle with pilot exp and that will end up hurting you. Look at how your groups are disposed and see if this is true. If so, take action as you see fit.

When you say “groups”, then I am thinking that you may be way ahead of me in your thinking and perhaps misinterpreting my chart. I am still way back to what you talked about in Post #142. IOW, this is just my plan for model selection. For example, I think that my choices for Army fighters above are pretty much as what we discussed prior, except I added the Ki-93.

Understood. I was moving on a bit and commenting upon the relative number of A6M RnD factories .vs. Oscar. Just wanted you to be sure that you are aware of this "imbalance" and can then work to correct it.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I have gone through each of the other type of a/c model types like you suggested (i.e. Navy fighters, TBs, DB,s etc.) and this chart is the result.

I have just started looking at Army fighter groups and like we discussed, I have a lot of Nate groups that need to upgrade and the chart above now defines my selection choices.

When it comes to the groups themselves, it seems to me that I do not have a choice of what type or how many groups I have. They are either already active in the game or set in the que. The only choice I have, as far as type, is to what I upgrade the a/c. Is that correct?

Correct. But you can tally all of your current fighter groups and how many you will have at some future point (like 1/1/45). What you will see is that you get about 3x as many IJA as compared to IJN. And prior to any re-sizing, IJA groups tend to be larger than IJN (49 vs 36). This implies you should need to build at least twice as many Oscar compared to A6M. Just rough cut stuff here.

Do the same with total LB, RC, TP, etc. Get a good feel for how many groups of each you get and the split between IJA/IJN. There is some real eye-opening items here. You them look at how many RnD factories you have and some allocations become kinda easy.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

My next big r&d challenge is figuring out what factories to let go into production, which ones to move to the next model and which ones to convert. A lot of what I ended-up on this chart is a result of my not planning this all out prior to the game start. Some of it will work-out OK and some will cost me extra supply. A lot of this will depend on how I decide to use my groups and that is going to be the topic of many more discussions, I hope.

Exactly, and I had already kinda moved onto to this.

In terms of your model choices, all are fine. Here are my thoughts on a few ...

Jack/George: you just need to choose one and settle on it. Both are a LBA IJN fighter stand in until you get the SAM.

IJN NF: watch your investment here compared to IJA NF. Boils down to how many groups and when.

Tojo: Relatively large investment in a defensive fighter. Suggests you plan on relinquishing initiative in early '43.

Tony/Tojo: largely the same, except Tony is later and bit better armed. These are short ranged interceptors with 370 speed and good climb. They are ok until last P47/P51 upgrades and then they fall victim to the 70 mph malus.

Frances/Peggy are offensive (counter offensive) bombers. Be sure you have a fighter to match.

[PaxMondo]

The biggest impact realistic RnD has on you is that you have to be careful on what you research and more importantly if and when you allow a factory to convert to production. In general, this option costs you more supply AND forces you to research far fewer models. Choose carefully. If you don't like what you have, start to change now, slowly as your supply will allow you. Remember, you will get every ac eventually. and the impact of 3x30 for RnD isn't all that large. In game outcomes can easily dwarf your RnD outcomes.

You research pallete above is far too close to a realistic RnD off game. I doubt you can research this many models successfully*. I suspect you will need to trim 1/3 or more.


*Successful means to have RnD factories available to research your 3rd tier of AC.

Just my take.

[PaxMondo]

Last thought: G3M3 is one of my favorite AC for the IJN. It has two unparalleled uses:

2E Patrol and Recon. Great range and you have lots of groups whereas you don't have that many Mavis/Emily.

Night Bomber: great counter to the B-29. Granted not quite as much range, but enough that it can hit B-29 bases from enough distance to matter. Doesn't take that much base damage to impact B29 raid strengths. And each one damaged is out for at least a week, generally more.


BTW: this was its historical use, so it is not gamey at all.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Take screen pictures.[;)] I too am lost.[&:]

I chopped-off a Zero r&d at the top by mistake, sorry.

Some of the factories are still as they were at game start. I think I have nine r&d factories not yet assigned to anything I want. Anything I am seriously r&ding will eventually be expanded to x(x) = 30, but you knew that. [:)]

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

- Ki-100 is great bomber killer that is also able to be R&D-ed quite a bit. Switch Tony R&D factories from 1a to it when repaired, research and then produce it.
- No problems with training IJN pilots in gamey game at all. Those 81 size squadrons rock + after training you can put 70/70 air/def pilots into FP groups and fly CAP to build xp.
- Screw Ki-44-IIb (cannon can't hit broad side of the barn), switch factories directly to IIc when IIa is ready
- E15K1 Norm? <- good!
- You would need to produce some Rufes as there are several groups using those, can train your fighter pilots
- You research Mavises but no Emilies? Should not it be the other way around?
- Is Zero night fighter of any use? I recalled 2-engine NFs are usually good, do not have much experience with those myself
- Me personally would put more factories into Judy, them are your main CV hitting power (500/800kg bombs are kings) and have long R&D chain to benefit from

Thanks again GA.

I want the Ki-100 I but I want a lot of stuff. Still have time to decide.

So you are saying I should produce the Ki-44IIa and Ki-44IIc only, (just move the IIb r&d to the IIc)?

Will the higher maneuverability on the Norm help with asw?

My thought on the Rufes is that if I am going to spend the money I am going to buy a more useful plane. I can still use the Rufe units for training. The units do come with some planes of their own don't they? [&:][;)]

When you say Mavises my eyes cross as not sure of which one you are talking. (Those, Helens, Peggys all tend to confuse me at times.) I'm not planning on r&ding any patrol or transports. If needed, I'll just produce them when they get here.

RE Judy, I think I see your reasoning here and will take a closer look. If I use the r&d to pull the models sooner I can still build new production factories when they arrive and let the r&d move up, can't I? Converting r&d to production is probably faster but like racing, speed cost money.

I still have a lot of studying to do on the balance of letting r&d go to production.