Internal politics

[0x7be]

I've played some of 4X games DWU included. As for me one important thing is missing: managing internal politics of your empire. As you play you see that for empires simpler linear rule applies: "bigger is better". The bigger your empire is the more you have resources, industry capacity, military might, etc. The bigger your empire is the easier is for you to conqer the galaxy.

I think it is both boring and unrealistic.

It is boring because it is interesting to play only until you get to the top of "most powerful empires". From that point your victory is inevitable and gameplay becomes more of mechanic application of overwhelming forces. It might be a hell of micromanagement, but it is not fun.

But it is also unrealistic. As we know, historic empires have fallen not because of external forces but due to internal reasons. As empire grows bigger it becomes more diverse, internal factions with conflicting interests fight in internal political (and even military) struggle, national factions seek independence and so one. So, resources, energy and focus of ruler becomes shifted from expernal matters (i.e. conquering the galaxy) to internal ones - trying to keep empire from falling apart.

What do you think about it?
I'd love to see this feature in future DW titles (or some other 4X game).

[Bingeling]

I think it could be interesting, depending on implementation.

Keep in mind that this is already a complex game with its strong sides. Adding more features may actually make the game less interesting.

Also, there are forces that works against large empires, although they may be too weak considering how easy it is to keep the reputation high and the population happy.

[ASHBERY76]

It's a shame but Stellaris will have that covered.Maybe DW2.

[0x7be]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
I think it could be interesting, depending on implementation.
Keep in mind that this is already a complex game with its strong sides. Adding more features may actually make the game less interesting.
Also, there are forces that works against large empires, although they may be too weak considering how easy it is to keep the reputation high and the population happy.

Well, maybe it should be some different kind of game. I've googled a bit and found quite interesting project: "Imperia". So-called "5X" game where you totally focused on internal politics and economics. Haven't learned it yet, but certainly will.

[0x7be]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
It's a shame but Stellaris will have that covered.Maybe DW2.

I'am waiting for Stellaris. Paradox have a list of excellent grand strategies in it's portfolio. I've played a lot of Hearts of Irons (2nd and 3rd) and dreamed about some kind of "hearts of irons in space". Not much is known about Stellaris, but it is said to be based on the same Clausewitz engine.

[jacozilla]

Not against your idea btw, but since you referenced historically - while it's true there have been examples of empires falling due to internal forces (although to be fair, the most notable of those also had external forces that heavily influenced the internal bickering that led to their downfall, e.g. Roman post East and West empire split, and Chinese fall of the Tang and Yuan dynasty)

But the number of empires / self governing states that have fallen the good old fashioned way - conquered via loot and pillaging - is far, far higher than the notable few that fell mainly due to their own internal strife. But even in those cases, it could be argued that the internal strife would not have led to downfall without the strong external force that almost always arrived to push them over the top (e.g. Mongol invasion of China, which by all sane reasons should have happened in terms of population vs population, but the corrupt dynasties basically did themselves in.)

The thing about implanting internal geo-politics that we, the de facto Great Leader, of whatever 4x game we are playing is that essentially almost all the usual internal geopolitics are the very things we the 4x Leader are given the power to do.

So if you have the game apply internal forces such that we have now lets say a 5x game - with whatever X name we want to call this internal politics that you the player don't directly control (ala DW's private system, I would think it a good idea to see how that maybe shakes up the current meta of 4x, but the balance would have to be pretty careful because the more you allow that 5th X factor to influence events, the more that typical players, at least like me, would feel what is the point of being the almighty 4x leader of what nation/empire I am in charge of if the internal politics removes my ability to actually play my empire like I want.