V1.08.05 Public Beta is Available

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I'm desesperatly looking at my Steam screen.... any picture to help finding the beta patch?

Right-click on the game in Steam, chose Properties and then the tab BETAS. There you can enable the public beta. I don't know what it says in French off course (maybe "le Properties" [:D].)

[Aurelian]

Nvm

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Yes morvael- AP is a massive reason for this...something not considered it seems.

You need the cavalry early in the war 41-43 to survive....after which you have spent a ton of AP making sure they have support units are in proper armies and built.....then if you just disband them all where does that leave the Soviet Player?

Ohhh it leaves them with nothing to show for a ton of wasted extremely limited AP. Without those 20 Cav Corps good luck taking the war back to the Germans on anything like a historical time frame. As the game has such limited Soviet AP and such limited Soviet trucks you cant build more mobile units, you cant build enough rifle corps and artillery divisions to effectively attack the massive German army in late 1942-1943 without those 20 cav corps.

Soviet Tank and Mech corps are virtually useless until late 1942 based on how the game models them at current. I mean completely useless against how powerful the game has modeled the Germans. So, the Soviets will need the cav corps to survive 1942....we have already seen what happens in several games to Soviet players that dont build alot of Cav Corps to blunt German 1942 offensives....they lose badly, and much worse losses than historical....if not outright lose the game.

You can look at my AAR vs Pelton and Im sure easily see that the Cav Corps are the only thing that held my Soviet Army together all of 1942. You can probably also look and see that the 20+ cav corps are the only reason Im successfully driving him back in early 1943. An now your saying ohh its unhistorical and it shouldnt work that way?

Then how do you propose the Germans are ever defeated in the game? I dont see any buffs to Soviet offensive capability at all in this patch just nerfs. Some of us like to actually play the game not just be a punching back until the NM changes to the point the Soviets auto-win.

Viga-Yes the -5 Morale to Soviet cav and the NM change keeps them roughly the same as current for Mar-OCT 1942 after that now the Soviet Cav corps will be weaker from OCT 1942 to the end of the war while this patch just increased German NM.

I disagree with the change and have better things to do with my time than spend months playing a game getting my butt kicked with almost no ability to fight back for 1941/1942....and then to have a patch make the soviets ability to fight in 1943 be greatly reduced as well. Its just not worth my time is how i see it.

Also Cav Corps build/rebuilding- good horses an such----well Cav squads cost a ton more armaments points to build than infantry squads...more motivation for the Germans to take industry IMO. So this cost is already built into the unit. If you want less cavalry LW then make them harder to build/cost more AP in Latewar. Give more motivation for the German player to encircle and destroy cav corps in the EW period. Historically most were encircled and destroyed. If I as the Soviet player dont get them all wiped out why should I penalized????

Germans are getting the Stalingrad units refunded if they arent wiped out...if I dont get all my cavalry corps wiped out why are the Soviets penalized???? good question right.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable here on several levels.

First, from 43 the whole point of what had been the cavalry corps was the concept of the Cav-Mech group. Two things went with this, first the cavalry corps became exploitation units and second the best way to look at the relationship between the cavalry and the armour was to see the cavalry as forming the role of Mot/mech inf in other armies.

Pictures of late war cavalry almost invariable show Su-76/85/122s etc at the same time.

Also this change has been long trailled on the forum. I've always had my cav corps under decent mech skill commanders but that is because I brigade them with tank corps from mid-42 onwards.

The other bit is having to re-organise your formations and SUs is part of building the second generation Red Army. Frustrating? yep ... but its a given. As an eg, you want by 1944 to be making use of those SU-76s and to remove the tank regiments as the T34/85 is produced in lower numbers and takes horrific losses ... you need to keep your corps ToEs filled out. I've had a lot of joy out the ski bns with cav corps, by the end of the winter of 42-43 those go and are replaced by ... SU-76s.

Equally you will find as you move on to mass corps formations that you need to shuffle a lot of units around to build your key armies.

Oh and raise lots of artillery, and those very useful Eng-Sapper brigades and the essential heavy tank regiments (or your very effective IS-2s will just rust in the Urals).

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

I'm desesperatly looking at my Steam screen.... any picture to help finding the beta patch?

Right-click on the game in Steam, chose Properties and then the tab BETAS. There you can enable the public beta. I don't know what it says in French off course (maybe "le Properties" [:D].)

Thanks a lot Bozo!

French and English have a lot of similar words: "properties" is "propriétés" in french...

Always remind that except between 1870 and 1945, England and France were the "best" ennemies

[boudi]

Steam is the devil, Stef. Sure only you can understand. [:D]

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

ORIGINAL: STEF78
What does mean:
41. Units in heavy urban, light urban and city terrain will be never considered surrounded.

Yep, interesting question. Leningrad could never fall?

It can fall, but in an honest fight. All that "surrounded" gives is a random (morale-based) reduction to 1/10 CV. These units will already have lower CV due to supply shortages affecting isolated units (unlike shortages in non-isolated units that have no impact on CV, only on actual firepower). Usually cornered troops fight to the last, as the alternatives to fighting and dying are usually worse. So you will have to mount a more-or-less regular attack against an isolated city, rather than mopping up the defenders with one division.

[morvael]

Cavalry is still a very good unit. Early war it has the morale bonus, corps forming is cheapest of all corps with no exp loss. These can then take up to 3 support units and become biggest (CV-wise) and fastest Soviet units in Dec41-May42 period, quite an important one. All those corps can convert to Guards, getting +10 NM, unlike other formations which are capped. And during the entire game they have reduced costs to enter enemy ZOC (which matters most if you want to penetrate enemy lines/convert terrain). With Guards Tank Armies at 16AP it's easy to put 1 mech, 2 tank and 1 cav corps in each army, giving them the chance to work under best mech leaders. Just not all 20-25 of them.

[Callistrid]

It's true, all location with 4+ manpower counts as city?
If yes, thats really harm the german in 41.

[chaos45]

We can agree to disagree, anyway once I upgrade to .05 will just be playing in hard mode from 1943 on nothing new as a soviet player since .04 on cept .04 on was hard mode 41/42, guess hard mode 43+ needed added.

I really dont understand how you dont see with these changes are stealing/taking months of AP from the Soviets for no gain no matter how you wrap it up or word it. Effectively no matter what kind of Bow u put on this change it makes the Soviet army worse over the long term of the game. No if, ands, or buts its a fact. This change weakens the Soviet army from early 1943 on. Either by not building as many cav corps to survive 1942 or building those cav corps and then being forced to spend a bunch of AP to fix Command and control.

Either option sucks for Soviet players and in effect makes the Army weaker.

Soviet players found a force structure that worked and now it was determined the one strategy that worked needed nerfed even though all it was getting was close to historical results in the game. This nerf wasn't needed especially for an army that was already getting badly pummeled much worse than historical in 1941/1942 in the game as is.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

It's true, all location with 4+ manpower counts as city?
If yes, thats really harm the german in 41.

I think it's 5+. Those that have special hex graphics.

[FelixCulpa]

Hello,
Picked up WiTE when it appeared on Steam, so a newbie to the game.
Very impressive looking update. Perhaps shelling out so much for a 2010/11 game was not such a silly idea!
Great to see Matrix continuing interest in the title.
Thx

[Icier]

Hi, just checked the members download & nothing posted in original WITE ..there is an update in
Danube scenario, has it been posted to wrong one?[&:]

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Ice,

Did you register your copy of WITE? If you registered it, any beta updates should show up for you.

Regards,

- Erik

[Icier]

Hi All, Found it...who is a dumb bunny?

[pellejoens]

I tried to download the patch several times from Matrix the last 18h. Every time it stops when it's only 2mb left.

[charlie0311]

Thing are getting better in WITE/Matrix land. Looks like you guys are really maxing on effort.

My contract as whiner in chief has finally expired, now I am going to apply for "ass-kisser" in chief

[Tejszd]

Thanks for the continued support/updates to the game!

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Yes morvael- AP is a massive reason for this...something not considered it seems.

You need the cavalry early in the war 41-43 to survive....after which you have spent a ton of AP making sure they have support units are in proper armies and built.....then if you just disband them all where does that leave the Soviet Player?

Ohhh it leaves them with nothing to show for a ton of wasted extremely limited AP. Without those 20 Cav Corps good luck taking the war back to the Germans on anything like a historical time frame. As the game has such limited Soviet AP and such limited Soviet trucks you cant build more mobile units, you cant build enough rifle corps and artillery divisions to effectively attack the massive German army in late 1942-1943 without those 20 cav corps.

Soviet Tank and Mech corps are virtually useless until late 1942 based on how the game models them at current. I mean completely useless against how powerful the game has modeled the Germans. So, the Soviets will need the cav corps to survive 1942....we have already seen what happens in several games to Soviet players that dont build alot of Cav Corps to blunt German 1942 offensives....they lose badly, and much worse losses than historical....if not outright lose the game.

You can look at my AAR vs Pelton and Im sure easily see that the Cav Corps are the only thing that held my Soviet Army together all of 1942. You can probably also look and see that the 20+ cav corps are the only reason Im successfully driving him back in early 1943. An now your saying ohh its unhistorical and it shouldnt work that way?

Then how do you propose the Germans are ever defeated in the game? I dont see any buffs to Soviet offensive capability at all in this patch just nerfs. Some of us like to actually play the game not just be a punching back until the NM changes to the point the Soviets auto-win.

Viga-Yes the -5 Morale to Soviet cav and the NM change keeps them roughly the same as current for Mar-OCT 1942 after that now the Soviet Cav corps will be weaker from OCT 1942 to the end of the war while this patch just increased German NM.

I disagree with the change and have better things to do with my time than spend months playing a game getting my butt kicked with almost no ability to fight back for 1941/1942....and then to have a patch make the soviets ability to fight in 1943 be greatly reduced as well. Its just not worth my time is how i see it.

Also Cav Corps build/rebuilding- good horses an such----well Cav squads cost a ton more armaments points to build than infantry squads...more motivation for the Germans to take industry IMO. So this cost is already built into the unit. If you want less cavalry LW then make them harder to build/cost more AP in Latewar. Give more motivation for the German player to encircle and destroy cav corps in the EW period. Historically most were encircled and destroyed. If I as the Soviet player dont get them all wiped out why should I penalized????

Germans are getting the Stalingrad units refunded if they arent wiped out...if I dont get all my cavalry corps wiped out why are the Soviets penalized???? good question right.

I almost always play as Russian, and I too love my (overpowered) cav xxx and will have to spend APs (but not months' worth) re-organising their commanders in my game vs Manstein which has reached Feb '43.

I have to say that I think the changes to cav xxx are relatively minor in the overall scheme of things and I accept Morvael's rationale for the change. Looking at the 43+ TOEs, their make-up and the way I use them is far more appropriately classified as mech for the commander's skill rating than inf. As to the CV drop, the '42 morale improvements of the rest of the army more than compensate in terms of game balance.

[charlie0311]

Ah, the mighty continue to return, I am so happy.

What greater shame you ask? Easy, be, charlie0311 for a short time:)

[chaos45]

Silly- all told to perfectly organize/re-organzie your command and control your looking at about 1 month of AP. As an army move is something like 30 AP alone.

With the change to mech you will want all you cav corps under mech army commanders with a front commander also with a 5+ mech skill. In my case my shock armies are all in different fronts, so to make this fix will take moving 5 shock armies to one of the new front commands or splitting them between a new front command and my tank front. Thats alot of AP on top of all the commander changes. Didnt even switch out all the commanders this turn and it cost most of one turns AP, and overall I lost 1-2 points of combat leadership not to mention possibly other stats on each commander change.

Went from 6/7 infantry skill to 5 mech skill on 2-3 commanders and 6 infantry to 6 mech on another. However this now takes most the remaining decent mech leaders the soviet army had and I still need at least 2-3 more tank armies formed just to Command and control the rest of tank/mech corps. Not to mention some of these commanders had to be stolen from other posts so at some point will need to fix the less than stellar commander the computer just put in charge. An most lost skills in other categories to like admin/ initiative/morale.

As I said I went from very good command and control to crappy command and control due to a 1 turn ToE change, and it takes about 1 month of AP roughly 200 or so to fix this. Thats what bothers my about the change. As you will need those infantry leaders in charge until FEB 1943+ so your going to eat the AP cost no matter what. The only way to adjust for this is form a shock army front in late 1941 and keep all shock armies under one front.

Still debating if this is good or not, I go back and forth...all shock armies able to work together is good but then you eat penalties when working with your infantry fronts/tank fronts. So not sure I like it all under one front but thats what this change will force if you dont want to waste a months AP later in the game. Right now im liking how having 1 shock army per front is working out as in conjunction with artillery and infantry corps it means each front can conduct offensives with some mobility with no massive penalties and it keeps pressure up all along the front.

Thats why I consider it a massive change. I would like to see changes to ToEs that make the German players spend 1 months AP for no benefit..........