Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A)

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Walker84

That's an incredible result! - did you have any forts built to add to the defence?

My recent games have stacking limits so unlikely to see such huge numbers involved in a single hex...

Nearly all the units have level 2 field fortifications, some more. All in all, that hex is a real deathtrap for any attacking units. It likely doesn't help Loka that a significant proportion of the 220k Allied troops are Chinese...

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

ORIGINAL: Walker84

That's an incredible result! - did you have any forts built to add to the defence?

My recent games have stacking limits so unlikely to see such huge numbers involved in a single hex...

My guess would be largely Chinese units (and the 2 Indian Divisions are none too sharp either). A lot of allied players see large AVs and assume that if only they could supply those Chinese hordes they will steam roll everything, but in fact they are quite fragile. Even with good experience they aren't that sharp. They just don't have the firepower. (Look at the CR and notice that although Loki has more than 2x the troops, he has nearly the same number of vehicles and guns).

Pretty much.

Although, Loka's moves here are pretty smart. The Allied AV is sufficently large that I've got my best divisions (and one of the tank divisions) deployed to the coastal road just to as to be sure that the Allies can't overwhelm me.

The real worry for me is that the rest of his British, Australian and Indian units are free to strike elsewhere...

[tiemanjw]

Pretty much. Although, Loka's moves here are pretty smart. The Allied AV is sufficently large that I've got my best divisions (and one of the tank divisions) deployed to the coastal road just to as to be sure that the Allies can't overwhelm me. The real worry for me is that the rest of his British, Australian and Indian units are free to strike elsewhere...

Very true... I don't see the 5th, 11th, or 17th Indian (or the Aussies, as most players use these guys in the CBI). He could possibly outflank you by moving them down the river to Prome. I think the key to Burma is not the coast road (and Ramree), but Prome and the grey road junction at Magwe / Meiktila.

If he is using these Chinese as a fixing force, you could be in trouble if these powerful divisions come down the grey road(s). What do you have defending them? What size forts do you have at Moulmein?

Could you provide a screen shot of the theater?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

Pretty much. Although, Loka's moves here are pretty smart. The Allied AV is sufficently large that I've got my best divisions (and one of the tank divisions) deployed to the coastal road just to as to be sure that the Allies can't overwhelm me. The real worry for me is that the rest of his British, Australian and Indian units are free to strike elsewhere...

Very true... I don't see the 5th, 11th, or 17th Indian (or the Aussies, as most players use these guys in the CBI). He could possibly outflank you by moving them down the river to Prome. I think the key to Burma is not the coast road (and Ramree), but Prome and the grey road junction at Magwe / Meiktila.

If he is using these Chinese as a fixing force, you could be in trouble if these powerful divisions come down the grey road(s). What do you have defending them? What size forts do you have at Moulmein?

Could you provide a screen shot of the theater?

The absence of the really good Allied units on this side of the map worries me somewhat. There are some Austrailians at Ramree, but there's still alot uncounted for.

Ramree's importance lies in the fact that it's perfect as a forward supply dump. Capturing it and dumping thousands of tonnes of supplies on the beaches there can supply a good few Allied units in combat. Thankfully, I own the only hex out of it, so the supply can't flow out of Ramree (unless I read the supply rules wrong).

Prome is the fulcrum of my defense. Level 4 forts, though there's currently only a single division (backed by bucketloads of arty) on R&R here. A second division is due in four days. Toungoo has 1000 AV behind level 3 forts (halfway to level 4), and there's a force of two divisions and some arty (1000 AV total) between the two hexes. The grey roads are all blocked off fairly well.

Moulmein has a 1/3rd fragment of a division as garrison, and is at level 4 forts (halfway to 5).

Screenshot below is pretty simple. Units marked in red are my static lines of defense. The green is my current move to redress the frontline and close off the hex-sides east of Toungoo. Once this is done, we'll withdraw about 800 AV in armored units to act as the theater fire brigade.

[Bullwinkle58]

Well, it's 1944. You're thinking land, he's probably thinking sea.

In our game we have a similar sitzkrieg east of Ramree, but I do have supply flow from there. I've beat him up pretty good, but an inferior stack is holding me back due to the terrain factors you see. I've also re-taken the Valley to Mandalay and Magwe, and have a small stack in the far north aimed at Bhamo, but held back by an ID and support, plus a great deal of superior CAP whenever I try to attrit.

But I just took Pt. Blair. December 1943. Aussie 6th, a couple of Brit IDs, some tanks, some Arty, and a huge pile of heavy AA. Almost all LST/LSD lift. Had four fighter units the first day plus the AA; he tried Nettie/Francis and lost big. He sent in a BB bombardment before I got good search up, but I have it now plus a CV TF lurking to the west of Blair I let him see. I've since sent more support and am building to AF 5 very quickly with Seabees to aim 4E at Sabang and Medan.

BUT, on the day Pt. Blair fell I started prepping all the shooters there, plus more still at Colombo, for Pegu. I'd take a look at the coast and remember how many amphibs get delivered between December 1943 and March 1944. [;)]

Edit: Also, on the Chinese. I think you're right he doesn't see their loss as a big deal. I have fewer Chinese corps escaped to Burma than he does, but I have three huge corps in my Ramree stack. Given they're the only draw I also have about 2500 squads for them in the pools. I use them not to win, but to disable IJA squads on my deliberate attacks. They're pretty good at that. You can see how much AV they eat when their rotation comes up in the combat animation screen. Given the VP loss ratio rule (half as costly as an IJA lost device) if you kill a lot of them the VP effect is not bad. I've been rotating them into Ramree to rebuild one at a time during the sitzkrieg. They're not there to win; they're just there to eat Japanese supply.

[Andav]

Thankfully, I own the only hex out of it, so the supply can't flow out of Ramree (unless I read the supply rules wrong).

The key is who owns the hex sides. Press the W key (I think) to display who owns what. If he crossed over from Remree and has marched troops in from the brown road and/or from the open hex to the east he will own he hex sides. If he owns the hex sides, your 3K AV does not prevent supply flow through the hex.

To echo Bullwinkle, what ever you do, make sure you have enough units at Pegu to prevent a landing. See witqps' AAR of our game. It is an excellent example of what can go totally wrong when you do not have enough defending the rear. You can also look at what he did at CRB. I have provided many good examples of what not to do. It is how I am giving back to this community. [8|]

Wa

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Well, it's 1944. You're thinking land, he's probably thinking sea.

In our game we have a similar sitzkrieg east of Ramree, but I do have supply flow from there. I've beat him up pretty good, but an inferior stack is holding me back due to the terrain factors you see. I've also re-taken the Valley to Mandalay and Magwe, and have a small stack in the far north aimed at Bhamo, but held back by an ID and support, plus a great deal of superior CAP whenever I try to attrit.

You'll need to wait a bit longer to find out what's happening on the high-seas in the western side of the map!

My attitude to Burma is that I want to avoid giving up the territory without a fight. You'll know yourself, it's a nightmare for the Allies to attack unless it's on overwhelming terms. The main strategic need to keep occupying Burma is gone, seeing as China is a Japanese province, but I see Rangoon and I think "Wow, that would make an amazing B-29 base to firebomb China, Malaya and Sumatra"!

But I just took Pt. Blair. December 1943. Aussie 6th, a couple of Brit IDs, some tanks, some Arty, and a huge pile of heavy AA. Almost all LST/LSD lift. Had four fighter units the first day plus the AA; he tried Nettie/Francis and lost big. He sent in a BB bombardment before I got good search up, but I have it now plus a CV TF lurking to the west of Blair I let him see. I've since sent more support and am building to AF 5 very quickly with Seabees to aim 4E at Sabang and Medan.

BUT, on the day Pt. Blair fell I started prepping all the shooters there, plus more still at Colombo, for Pegu. I'd take a look at the coast and remember how many amphibs get delivered between December 1943 and March 1944.

I'm banking on Port Blair giving me enough warning to avoid a big Inchon style landing on the panhandle. The panhandle itself is occupied by the Thais (who withdraw in a few months). The three panhandle bases have all got level 4 forts and working towards level 5, but they're Thai units - anti-paratrooper duty is about all they're good for now.

Once I've got the hexsides to the south-east of Toungoo closed up, the bulk of Panzerarmee Burma is headed for Moulmein to protect against this and I can free up 500 or so AV to reinforce the panhandle. I'm going to pull 500 AV from my stack sitting behind the river east of Taung Gyi and send that via Thailand to the panhandle as well.

If Loka wants to take Burma, all he has to do is take Pt Blair. At that point I'd just order every unit to march out of Burma for Thailand and give him the territory. Once Pt Blair goes the entire Burmese house of cards comes tumbling down.

Edit: Also, on the Chinese. I think you're right he doesn't see their loss as a big deal. I have fewer Chinese corps escaped to Burma than he does, but I have three huge corps in my Ramree stack. Given they're the only draw I also have about 2500 squads for them in the pools. I use them not to win, but to disable IJA squads on my deliberate attacks. They're pretty good at that. You can see how much AV they eat when their rotation comes up in the combat animation screen. Given the VP loss ratio rule (half as costly as an IJA lost device) if you kill a lot of them the VP effect is not bad. I've been rotating them into Ramree to rebuild one at a time during the sitzkrieg. They're not there to win; they're just there to eat Japanese supply.

Loka's use of the Chinese is very smart. Better yet is the fact that he has thrown in lots of tanks and some Indian divisions into the mix. If it was a stack of Chinese, I'd be skimping on the blocking force, but with quality Allied units in the mix, there's little I can do.

Even so, assuming that every destroyed device in that attack was Chinese (and I doubt it was, too many guns lost for it to be the Chinese), that's a nice 52 odd VP's for me. That's a heavy cruiser right there.

ORIGINAL: Andav

Thankfully, I own the only hex out of it, so the supply can't flow out of Ramree (unless I read the supply rules wrong).

The key is who owns the hex sides. Press the W key (I think) to display who owns what. If he crossed over from Remree and has marched troops in from the brown road and/or from the open hex to the east he will own he hex sides. If he owns the hex sides, your 3K AV does not prevent supply flow through the hex.

IIRC the hexside from Ramree to the hex east (55,48) is under Allied control. The hexside from the brown road north-west into 55,48 is also Allied control.

However, the hex has a big J on it when I press W. My understanding is that supplies can flow INTO the hex, but cannot flow through it. This means that Ramree can currently only supply units in hex 55,48 and not any other Allied units in Burma.

Please tell me that's the case?

To echo Bullwinkle, what ever you do, make sure you have enough units at Pegu to prevent a landing. See witqps' AAR of our game. It is an excellent example of what can go totally wrong when you do not have enough defending the rear. You can also look at what he did at CRB. I have provided many good examples of what not to do. It is how I am giving back to this community. [8|]

Wa

I did not even realize Pegu was a coastal hex...the build port option is greyed out, it's a 0(0) port and I has a red hexside to the south-west...

Even so, there's a 1/3rd fragment of a division there on R&R. I'll move some more troops here ASAP and start digging forts. I had this hex written off as it was a clear non-coastal hex...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Andav

I have provided many good examples of what not to do. It is how I am giving back to this community. [8|]

OK, THIS is funny! [:'(]

[mind_messing]

March 29th to March 31st, 1944

North Pacific

zzzZZZzzz

Central Pacific

We land the first batch of supplies on Kusaie without any issues, and more is on the way. Two PB ships are shuttling supplies from the Marshalls. I feel confident enough to move some fighters in to Kusaie and Ponape, along with some transport planes.

The ships will bring in supply while the transports fly in extra combat troops. I'd love Loka to run low on supply here and have to come back to face the CD guns again...

South-West Pacific

The Allies land and take Umboi Island. The supply here was used up a long time ago, so I flew out the combat troops and most of the support troops as well. Still, it lets me buy back some decent units for use elsewhere. Most importantly is one of the big IJN Base Forces with radar and a CD guns that I intend to use in the Bonins.

The Allies mount their usual milk-runs against Hansa and Hollandia with Fletcher squadrons.

As an amusing side note, I manage to sneak out a badly damaged xAP out of Hansa Bay for Wewak, and I hope it might even make it to the comparative safety of Hollandia.

DEI

Usual night bombing hilarity over Timor. It turns out that night bombers are as useless in large quantities as they are in small quantities. Another dozen or so squadrons with half their aircraft disabled and their morale in the dirt. I'm becoming desensitized to it now...

I spot Allied aircraft that had moved in to Taberfane, so I send a cruiser force to bombard, followed up by sweeps from Bolea. We break about even, shooting down some Warhawks and Thunderbolts but the airbase remains open.

The Allies have flown aircraft into Babar, between Saumlaki and Latuem, so I'm sending the two slow BB's at Dili to bombard this base next turn as well. As far as possible I want to keep Allied aircraft stuck on Australia.

I'm going in with another deliberate attack against the Allies at Latuem. Japanese AV is up at 1600 to some 400 Allied AV, and I've lots of '43 IJA squads. I want this beachhead wiped out.

Cocos Island

The full KB moves up to Cocos, where it promptly finds the Allied carrier task force that had been handing around the area.

The battle is a calamity for both sides, as neither the Japanese nor the Allies manage to get off a good, co-ordinated strike package.

The first strike advantage goes to Japan...

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cocos Islands at 33,102

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft - Shameful co-ordination
A6M5b Zero x 57
B6N2 Jill x 52
D4Y1 Judy x 43
D4Y3 Judy x 24

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 36
Seafire IIC x 24
Sea Hurricane Ib x 15
Martlet IV x 16
F4U-1A Corsair x 40

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 5 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 21 destroyed, 5 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 20 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Battler, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Langley, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Illustrious
CV Intrepid, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Unicorn

...

Ammo storage explosion on CV Intrepid
Fuel storage explosion on CVE Battler
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Langley
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVL Langley
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CVE Battler

And then the second task force of the KB strikes the Allied ships...

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cocos Islands at 33,102

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 98 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 4
A6M5b Zero x 30
B6N2 Jill x 26
D4Y1 Judy x 25

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 34
Seafire IIC x 22
Sea Hurricane Ib x 13
Martlet IV x 9
F4U-1A Corsair x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 10 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVL Unicorn, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Langley, heavy fires, heavy damage

One small Japanese strike goes after shipping at Cocos and puts two bombs in an xAK. The Allied counter-strikes are simply laughable - unescorted British Avengers that fly to their deaths at the hands of the KB's CAP.

The PM phase doesn't make things much better for the Allied carriers:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cocos Islands at 33,102

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 115 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes

Japanese aircraft - Again, poor co-ordination
A6M5b Zero x 35
B6N2 Jill x 19
D4Y1 Judy x 4
D4Y3 Judy x 4

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 14
Martlet IV x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 3 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 8 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 3 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet IV: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Intrepid, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CV Illustrious
CVL Unicorn, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Young
CVL Langley, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

...

Fuel storage explosion on CVL Unicorn
Ammo storage explosion on CVL Unicorn
Ammo storage explosion on CV Intrepid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Cocos Islands at 33,102

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 84 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 40
B6N2 Jill x 10
D4Y1 Judy x 24

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 9
Martlet IV x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 6 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 1 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y1 Judy: 4 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVL Langley, and is sunk
DD Cotten
DD Hudson
DD Young, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

The Intrepid, Langley and Unicorn are all confirmed sunk. I'd say with about 60% confidence that the Battler is still battling on (haw haw) but I doubt it will make port.

The Japanese lose no ships but about 150 odd aircraft. The KB will sprint south-east and make for Surabaya to take replacement aircraft.

Once there, I'm consolidating the KB into a single task force. I had two separate task forces organized by speed, but I'm not convinced this is the best organization. The two task forces ended up one hex apart for this battle, and I think co-ordination suffered as a result. I'd rather have a single, combined task force in a single hex than two separate ones. It should help with co-ordination as well.

Despite the fact that I've had a carrier battle in '44 and got away Scot free (as only someone from Glasgow can), I get the feeling I've lost out. Aircraft losses were fairly heavy, but nothing that the pools can't easily cope with. Pilot losses weren't too bad either (70 or so from the KB, easily replaced by the reserve/TRACOM).

The main loss for me is that the KB's location is known, and there's a CVE task force spotted at Midway island and a second Allied carrier force operating in the Bismark Sea. Time will tell as to what's going on here.

Burma

No real chances here after the horrific battle on the 30th. I'm sending more supply from Japan to Rangoon to ensure we're well topped up here.

I'll shift units about to cover Pegu and the panhandle properly once I get the turn back.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I did not even realize Pegu was a coastal hex...the build port option is greyed out, it's a 0(0) port and I has a red hexside to the south-west...

Even so, there's a 1/3rd fragment of a division there on R&R. I'll move some more troops here ASAP and start digging forts. I had this hex written off as it was a clear non-coastal hex...

It's a port. In my games the build option is not greyed out. It starts at 0(0) yes, but it can be built. LSTs don't care though.

The main issue is it's not a river crossing into Rangoon. And if you still have anything up-country it's the rail-head out.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I did not even realize Pegu was a coastal hex...the build port option is greyed out, it's a 0(0) port and I has a red hexside to the south-west...

Even so, there's a 1/3rd fragment of a division there on R&R. I'll move some more troops here ASAP and start digging forts. I had this hex written off as it was a clear non-coastal hex...

It's a port. In my games the build option is not greyed out. It starts at 0(0) yes, but it can be built. LSTs don't care though.

The main issue is it's not a river crossing into Rangoon. And if you still have anything up-country it's the rail-head out.

I loaded up a previous mid-turn save to check. For me, it's a greyed out 0(0) port, but I can have ships sent to the hex, so it is a coastal hex.

Weird. Well, one more hex that needs to be garrisoned....

[Lowpe]

I was reading witpqs when he pulled off that Pegu invasion. Made me check to![:D]

You did well on the CV attack -- don't feel badly at all there.

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I was reading witpqs when he pulled off that Pegu invasion. Made me check to![:D]

You did well on the CV attack -- don't feel badly at all there.

Well, the way recent events are transpiring, I get the feeling that Cocos was just bait...

More to come when I get around to plotting the turn...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I was reading witpqs when he pulled off that Pegu invasion. Made me check to![:D]

You did well on the CV attack -- don't feel badly at all there.

Well, the way recent events are transpiring, I get the feeling that Cocos was just bait...

More to come when I get around to plotting the turn...

Sounds like a cliffhanger!

[mind_messing]

April 1st to April 7th, 1944

What a week.

North Pacific

Still a sleepy backwater

Central Pacific

Daily destroyer bombardments batter Wake Island for three days before an Allied amphibious force turns up off-shore with a US Army Division aboard. They offload in good order on the 6th of April.

The shock attack is an interesting case study in atoll assaults:

Ground combat at Wake Island (136,98)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 12981 troops, 214 guns, 233 vehicles, Assault Value = 428

Defending force 5305 troops, 44 guns, 64 vehicles, Assault Value = 158

Allied adjusted assault: 6

Japanese adjusted defense: 299

Allied assault odds: 1 to 49 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
184 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5623 casualties reported
Squads: 172 destroyed, 165 disabled
Non Combat: 76 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 116 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 61 (40 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Vehicles lost 58 (46 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
93rd Infantry Division

Defending units:
53rd Naval Guard Unit
1st South Seas Gsn
9th Armored Car Co
Ichiki Det.
5th Armored Car Co
301st Ind.Infantry Bn /1
5th JAAF AF Bn

The Allies being to withdraw their troops, and by the 8th all that remains on Wake Island is the victorious Japanese. Loka skimpped out on the pre-invasion bombardments: no air attacks at all, and nothing heavier than destroyers bombarded the island. I'm extremely happy - a nice VP haul and I still keep Wake, so no need to worry about the Marianas being threatened yet.

Kusaie remains stalemated.

South-West Pacific

Hansa Bay falls, the defenders are retreating north-east up the coast to Wewak to make a second stand there.

DEI

With Allied carriers off Cocos baiting the KB out, and the KB out of action to replenish and rest it's air groups, the Allies make their move here.

Additional Allied troops are off-loaded at Latuem and Saumlaki. We try to get at the Allied carriers and amphibs with land-based air, but poor co-ordination means all we end up sinking are some empty amphibious ships, and in turn we lose a fair few strike aircraft.

In the air, the Allies have massed their best sweepers aimed at Timor. In exchange, I'm rotating in every squadron I can spare from other theaters; it's attritional warfare, and I'll win.

On the ground, the Allies are up to 900 AV on Saumlaki, with Japanese AV at 550 (behind level 4 forts). At Latuem, the totals are 1200 Japanese AV (behind level 5 forts) to 580 Allied AV.

Burma

We reduce the Pegu salient and push a Chinese corp into the jungle to starve. The Allies withdraw from hex 57,51 without a fight, so we don't need to chance a river crossing. We'll take the territory we need to secure our perimeter and start pulling units off the frontline to create a nice big reserve.

[JocMeister]

Lesson learned the hard way for Loka! [X(]

Atolls suck! Can´t do it halfhearted. Several big BB bombardments and 1-2 weeks of aerial bombardments are minimum.

[Lowpe]

For whatever reasons Armored Cars seem to do very well on Atolls! At least for me, and now for you.

I think having multiple units helps too, the bombardments and bombings generally focus on one or two units.

Well done!

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Lesson learned the hard way for Loka! [X(]

Atolls suck! Can´t do it halfhearted. Several big BB bombardments and 1-2 weeks of aerial bombardments are minimum.

I'm quite surprised. Loka tried a halfhearted invasion of Wake in mid-42 in the hopes that I skimped out on the garrison. He knew Wake had level 4 forts back then. If he want's to pay twice to learn these lessons, then I'm happy to let him go for it.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For whatever reasons Armored Cars seem to do very well on Atolls! At least for me, and now for you.

I think having multiple units helps too, the bombardments and bombings generally focus on one or two units.

Well done!

Yeah, I'm not really sure if it's the armored cars themselves, or just the fact that it's a nice way to get AV on an island without pushing the stacking limits. Possibly the armor value of the tankettes protects them from the bombardments better than the squishy infantry squads or something?

It's been my observation that naval bombardments overwhelming funnel disruption into any support units. At Wake, the AF battalion was at 70 or so disruption, the rest of the units in the low 10s. Air strikes tend to distribute disruption a lot more evenly. That's what killed this invasion off: the support troops were wandering around shell shocked while the infantry were sitting in their pillboxes ready to go.

[tiemanjw]

Sorry, a little late here:
what kind of prep did he bring here? Did he bring in any dedicated bombardments, and / or did he embed any heavies with the amphibs?

[mind_messing]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

Sorry, a little late here:
what kind of prep did he bring here? Did he bring in any dedicated bombardments, and / or did he embed any heavies with the amphibs?

Destroyer task forces bombarded Wake for about three consecutive turns beforehand. I didn't see anything larger than a destroyer in any of the replays, and the largest warship I can find from looking through the combat report is a CVE (that ran into a mine).

No preparatory air attacks, no battleship bombardment, either separate or embedded with the amphibs.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

Sorry, a little late here:
what kind of prep did he bring here? Did he bring in any dedicated bombardments, and / or did he embed any heavies with the amphibs?

Destroyer task forces bombarded Wake for about three consecutive turns beforehand. I didn't see anything larger than a destroyer in any of the replays, and the largest warship I can find from looking through the combat report is a CVE (that ran into a mine).

No preparatory air attacks, no battleship bombardment, either separate or embedded with the amphibs.

Wow - really? I don't agree with Joc above that some minimum time of bombardments is necessary (just gives away your target) - but when you go you need BBs and tanks. DDs are fine for shooting at parked A/C, but aren't going to cause the disruption necessary to take a moderately defended fort.