A Japanese Debacle - Sqz (J) vs. fcharton (A)

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You big baby. [:'(]

Unfortunately I can't. We've discussed some things and Mersing came up as not kosher with Francois. That's ok on my end.

[FeurerKrieg]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You big baby. [:'(]

Unfortunately I can't. We've discussed some things and Mersing came up as not kosher with Francois. That's ok on my end.

HR against landing at Mersing? Poppycock.

My game had a HR against a day 1 landing at Mersing, and I think that makes sense. I did a day 2 landing and things went great. I think a day 2 landing is almost better anyway, since you don't have to worry about Force Z going straight there.

[Crazypantoufle]

About China, it all dépends on what is your priority on this front.

Opening the road to Indochina? Take Changhsha first.

Long term startegy to annihilate China by capturing/neutralizing Chungking? Go to Sian/Langshow before he has time to move enough troops to build a strong defense line in the rough terrain between Sian and Nanyang, or worse, in the mountains South of Langshow.
If you want to deny him any fuel supply for the chinese HI AND be able to use this fuel/oïl for your own KMC HI, taking control of the Nanyang-Sian-Langshow road is crucial, as it is the only good road in northern china who can bring this fuel/oïl efficiently to your KMC HI.

Changsha industry is quite trashed at the start and need some time to repair before being that crucial supply center for KMT troops. Just cover the easy-to-defend forest hexes around Changsha and Ichang with some troops to prevent any nasty chinese plans on Hankow/Wuchang/Nanchang while you're attacking in northern China.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Crazypantoufle

About China, it all dépends on what is your priority on this front.

Opening the road to Indochina? Take Changhsha first.

Long term startegy to annihilate China by capturing/neutralizing Chungking? Go to Sian/Langshow before he has time to move enough troops to build a strong defense line in the rough terrain between Sian and Nanyang, or worse, in the mountains South of Langshow.
If you want to deny him any fuel supply for the chinese HI AND be able to use this fuel/oïl for your own KMC HI, taking control of the Nanyang-Sian-Langshow road is crucial, as it is the only good road in northern china who can bring this fuel/oïl efficiently to your KMC HI.

Changsha industry is quite trashed at the start and need some time to repair before being that crucial supply center for KMT troops. Just cover the easy-to-defend forest hexes around Changsha and Ichang with some troops to prevent any nasty chinese plans on Hankow/Wuchang/Nanchang while you're attacking in northern China.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the Chinese north is a sideshow when it comes to China. Taking out China is all about snarfing up Liuchow, Tsuyung, and Kweiyang. China will fall with or without the couple hundred supply per day it will get from Sian, Lanchow, and so on. The pace of combat operations will eat up that supply and it just won't matter. Plus, you'll eventually capture those bases anyway.

[SqzMyLemon]

The first turn is away.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

The first turn is away.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

The first turn is away.

I was just about to suggest you don´t use KB for a PH strike. It would have been of much better use to you in the DEI! [:D]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I was just about to suggest you don´t use KB for a PH strike. It would have been of much better use to you in the DEI! [:D]

I personally like the Pearl Harbor strike so I don't mind keeping that aspect of the war based in reality. However, wait for it, I did not target Pearl Harbor's airbase. Let the screaming begin [:D]. The entire KB air wing is ordered to concentrate on the American Navy, rather than destroying obsolete Allied aircraft. The tests I ran showed the number of aircraft destroyed on the ground never exceeded 30, so it was hardly worth the effort in my opinion. On the other hand, the CA's, DD's and support ships were targeted more than I've ever seen in the past. The less ships available to interfere in my Australian operations the better.

I do get to hit Manila's port with LBA though, so hopefully some submarines will be targeted. I actually want to encourage a fight in the DEI and I find KB there is too much of a deterrent to allow aggressive Allied operations. I'll explain more as the first few turns evolve, but I want Francois to focus on the DEI and encourage him to keep his naval assets there. I hope to distract him from immediately thinking defensively about Australia.

I'm much more focused on destroying Allied forces this time around, if I play my usual way and bring the hammer all the time, the Allies simply melt away.

[Lokasenna]

I think it's worth hitting the AFs with your divebombers and their crappy bombs, at least. Definitely not worth keeping the Zeroes on airfield strafing attacks, as you'll lose a lot of them. And don't waste the Kates on the airfields.

But damaging the planes is worthwhile, and any Catalinas (and B-17s) destroyed on the ground are awesome. Really helps initially IMO.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
I'm much more focused on destroying Allied forces this time around, if I play my usual way and bring the hammer all the time, the Allies simply melt away.

Then again, your opponent may elect to melt away in a "Sir Robin" anyways, regardless of your pressing him. It's been done. [:'(]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I was just about to suggest you don´t use KB for a PH strike. It would have been of much better use to you in the DEI! [:D]

I personally like the Pearl Harbor strike so I don't mind keeping that aspect of the war based in reality. However, wait for it, I did not target Pearl Harbor's airbase. Let the screaming begin [:D]. The entire KB air wing is ordered to concentrate on the American Navy, rather than destroying obsolete Allied aircraft. The tests I ran showed the number of aircraft destroyed on the ground never exceeded 30, so it was hardly worth the effort in my opinion. On the other hand, the CA's, DD's and support ships were targeted more than I've ever seen in the past. The less ships available to interfere in my Australian operations the better.

I do get to hit Manila's port with LBA though, so hopefully some submarines will be targeted. I actually want to encourage a fight in the DEI and I find KB there is too much of a deterrent to allow aggressive Allied operations. I'll explain more as the first few turns evolve, but I want Francois to focus on the DEI and encourage him to keep his naval assets there. I hope to distract him from immediately thinking defensively about Australia.

I'm much more focused on destroying Allied forces this time around, if I play my usual way and bring the hammer all the time, the Allies simply melt away.

Personally I think you would have been better off using the KB in the DEI to secure your objectives quickly rather then possibly sinking some old and slow BBs. Get the KB back to the DEI quickly to speed you advance! [:)]

I think you have a solid plan though. But the drawback with it is I think that the outcome is out of your hands. If Francois prepares accordingly I don´t think you can overcome OZ. The UH terrain + forts are your primary enemies. If he doesn´t prepare though...he will be in trouble no doubt. [:)]

PS: Plan B: Land in January and strat bomb using your LBA. OZ AA non existing until April if I remember correctly.

[SqzMyLemon]

Turn 1 has been run.

Of all the iterations I ran before finalizing the end of turn save to Francois, the official turn was the worst of the bunch. Oh well, I traditionally have underwhelming first turns and this was no different. I stand by my decisions, but I know for a fact the results could have been much better.

The war is on. Time to shake off the Japanese cobwebs and get to work. I'll post later on turn 1.

[SqzMyLemon]

I'll just post the relevant after action reports for Dec. 7th and go into more detail about upcoming moves next posting.

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Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 43 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 72
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 126

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 15 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 7 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 14 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 6, and is sunk
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AO Ramapo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 3
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Reid, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Repair Shipyard hits 3
Port hits 21
Port fuel hits 4
Port supply hits 1

The reasoning here was to sink ships. I know most people target the airbase to destroy PBY's and B-17's, but I opted out as numerous test results were poor. Unfortunately, more ships were targeted than just the BB's in my test runs, but in this case the air wing concentrated almost solely on the battlewagons. I can't complain as they were hit pretty hard. I tried something different and it didn't quite work out as planned.

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Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 41
G4M1 Betty x 75

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Ethel Edwards, Bomb hits 3, on fire
DD Peary, Bomb hits 2, on fire
PT Q-112, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-32, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Seawolf, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Pillsbury, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1
SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1
PG Isabel, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 1
SS Seal, Bomb hits 1
ACM Colonel Harrison, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Repair Shipyard hits 2
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Results at Manila were not great, but I wasn't trying for a knockout blow here. I just wanted to hit a few submarines. Only one sunk outright, but the first one is the hardest to get. [:D]

I did target Clark Field, but results were negligible.

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Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 29
G3M2 Nell x 33

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 10 damaged
O-47A: 1 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
P-35A: 6 damaged
P-35A: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 18

I'm not concerned here as there is plenty of time to grind down Allied air in the Philippines.

In other news, CL Marblehead avoided both morning and afternoon air phase torpedo attacks from CVL Ryujo near Tandjoengselor.

On a positive note, Nate fighters performed stellar CAP duties over Kota Bharu. British aircraft were shot down, or driven off, including all six Vildebeest III's and both Swordfish torpedo bombers that made attacks.

Japanese amphibious landings occurred at Aparri, Laoag and Vigan in the Philippines. Key landings were at Kuching and Manado in order to establish forward naval air search capability.

Standard landings at Kota Bharu and Patani in Malaya. I may or may not conduct secondary landings at Mersing, but Kuantan will be captured once CAP can be supplied from Kota Bharu.

That's about it other than China. It seems an almost complete withdrawal to better defensive terrain is underway. I'll post a screenshot once things become clearer. I know Francois was looking forward to the Chinese theatre and I'm curious to see how he plays it. I don't sweat China and I'm confident I can handle anything he may try differently than the norm.

[SqzMyLemon]

Dec. 8th Turn is away.

I expect Allied naval forces to attack my amphibious TF's unloading at Manado. I've ordered a SCTF of two heavy cruisers and four destroyers to detach from the CVL Ryujo TF in an attempt to screen Manado. CVL Ryujo will move directly to Manado to add the two CS's currently assigned to the amphibious force.

KB will rendezvous with the replenishment TF northwest of Pearl Harbor and head west.

Despite the lack of escort, Japanese transports are ordered to begin the massive task of moving combat and support units forward. I'm facing an initial logistics nightmare, but everything will be sorted as the perimeter expands.

I don't expect Francois to send the turn back today.

[Lokasenna]

The results at Pearl were underwhelming, but not terrible. You might've got one to fires as well. What were the ground losses on Kingfishers/Seagulls?

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What were the ground losses on Kingfishers/Seagulls?

2 Kingfishers.

[KenchiSulla]

I'm curious how this will play out. Personally, I dislike Pearl strikes. In general, the strike is not decisive and it puts your most important naval asset far away from the action.

I understand your objective is to capture Australia but you still need to take the oilfields as soon as possible. If you allow allied troops to dig in at key points you are going to loose fields to sabotage...

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

I'm curious how this will play out. Personally, I dislike Pearl strikes. In general, the strike is not decisive and it puts your most important naval asset far away from the action.

If you allow allied troops to dig in at key points you are going to loose fields to sabotage...

All good points and I agree with your assessment of striking Pearl Harbor. I've found since the game has been patched/tweaked/modded after all these years the Pearl Harbor strike has become less effective. I understand the reasons why a large number of players choose to skip it.

I still have plans to advance in the DEI as quickly as possible, but it will have to be done under cover of LBA and rely on Japanese surface forces clearing the way.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

I'm curious how this will play out. Personally, I dislike Pearl strikes. In general, the strike is not decisive and it puts your most important naval asset far away from the action.

If you allow allied troops to dig in at key points you are going to loose fields to sabotage...

All good points and I agree with your assessment of striking Pearl Harbor. I've found since the game has been patched/tweaked/modded after all these years the Pearl Harbor strike has become less effective. I understand the reasons why a large number of players choose to skip it.

I still have plans to advance in the DEI as quickly as possible, but it will have to be done under cover of LBA and rely on Japanese surface forces clearing the way.

I think there's a lot of psychological value in the PH strike itself, as well as where it means KB is. If you put KB in the DEI right away, it reveals some things about your strategy. The PH strike is a great generalist approach and keeps your opponent guessing, to an extent.

[Crazypantoufle]

Since the patchs, i found the number of planes destroyed on ground in PH has been reduced a lot.

But i think the port attack result is still totally random like before. My last attack, with the new patch, sank all the BBs. 2 years ago, no BB sunk (and no torpedo used!).