Chaos(SHC) vs Pelton-T131- Game Over-Soviet victory.

[chaos45]

T95 Center/south

[chaos45]

T95- Crimea....I know crimea right nothing happens there [8D]

Preparations for an offensive begin

[chaos45]

T96 with weather mud almost everywhere....this was the only section with real action...its the final nail in the German infantry corps coffin as the encirclement is completely locked and they are doomed now.

Also wanted to point out---since Pelton has commented alot about uncoordinated attacks...you can plainly see from the color coordination of my frontline my troops are fighting with solid command and control often cooperation is only with units in the same front for assaults.

[chaos45]

T98 North- more pressure on leningrad-

[chaos45]

T98 Stalingrad area- more attacks to prepare the area for a wider offensive.

Was also the turn of the 3 German divisions surrendering if I remember right.

[chaos45]

T98- start of turn losses- as you can see 50k+ attrition losses or more than half of my normal replacements of only 85k per week.

To me this seems alittle ridiculous that I lose more than 50% of my replacement pool each turn before I even move a counter.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

T98- start of turn losses- as you can see 50k+ attrition losses or more than half of my normal replacements of only 85k per week.

To me this seems alittle ridiculous that I lose more than 50% of my replacement pool each turn before I even move a counter.

There are other things in the patch that are increasing losses too - check out the impact of retreat in a zoc. You can shed 10-20% of your ToE that way. Then the alteration of the ratio total losses:kia for the Soviets.

Having played a few turns with the patch I'm not exactly happy about the practical implications.

[chaos45]

Yes average German attrition is much, much lower.....

So currently the game is approx numbers per week in 1943 are:

Axis replacements- 30k or so per week + 15k Returned = approx 45k axis replacements per week of which only 10-20k depending on weather and frontline contact are lost to attrition.

Soviet Replacements- 85k + 15k returned = approx 100k soviet replacements per week 40-50k+ again depending on contact/weather lost to attrition.

The myth of infinite soviet replacements is just that. If the Soviet lose more than 2:1 in combat they are in effect losing combat power against the Axis. In fact to be winning they need to have a 1.5:1 exchange rate in ground combat if not better with these replacement rates.

Above about 2:1 is not sustainable for the soviets in this version of the game from 1943 on.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Yes average German attrition is much, much lower.....

So currently the game is approx numbers per week in 1943 are:

Axis replacements- 30k or so per week + 15k Returned = approx 45k axis replacements per week of which only 10-20k depending on weather and frontline contact are lost to attrition.

Soviet Replacements- 85k + 15k returned = approx 100k soviet replacements per week 40-50k+ again depending on contact/weather lost to attrition.

The myth of infinite soviet replacements is just that. If the Soviet lose more than 2:1 in combat they are in effect losing combat power against the Axis. In fact to be winning they need to have a 1.5:1 exchange rate in ground combat if not better with these replacement rates.

Above about 2:1 is not sustainable for the soviets in this version of the game from 1943 on.

Also, the most recent nerf to Soviet morale towards the end of the game, with a corresponding German morale buff and the option not to shrink the size of German divisions is all designed to give the Axis player a better chance of managing things in 44-45. Whatever, we'll simply learn to adapt.

[loki100]

the problem is all these changes in isolation (apart from unilaterally changing the airwar) are ok. But in combination they are all too biased to one side.

it really doesn't help that its clear that Pelton was in on the patching process. At the most generous, he's a rules based player (fine, but) and strongly biased to one side (not so fine and big but).

I've nothing against shoring up the Germans late war to give a more realistic/better game, but I think in combination all these changes simply extend the tedious WW1 style period that is unfortunately built into the game design in any case.

To be honest, with these air changes, they may as well just ditch the entire air war routine, its micro-management work for absolutely no return.

[chaos45]

T99- Leningrad front- lots of attacking [8D]

[chaos45]

T99- Crimea offensive kicks off in earnest- the 2 hungarian BDEs in the mountains will be trapped and surrender a couple turns later.

[chaos45]

T99- start of turn losses to keep proving my point on Soviet losses/abit to low of Soviet replacements in the newer patches.

As this is before I moved a counter as Pelton only laucnhed the one attack shown his turn if i remember right....so as can clearly be seen I lose almost my entire replacement pool before I even do an attack.

[chaos45]

Most likely until summer operations will be a slow crawl. Up to turn 102/103 now.

Soviet Manpower and armaments have both hit 0 this turn.

About all the has happened since T98 is the Crimea was retaken and more pressure put on German forces at leningrad. Weather pretty much locked down the entire front in Mud last turn so basically nothing happened.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Most likely until summer operations will be a slow crawl. Up to turn 102/103 now.

Soviet Manpower and armaments have both hit 0 this turn.

About all the has happened since T98 is the Crimea was retaken and more pressure put on German forces at leningrad. Weather pretty much locked down the entire front in Mud last turn so basically nothing happened.

Only reason why Leningrad area is where it is is because of weather bug, but its a side show means nothing for big picture.

At least for my same old trategy, allot of loses for now reason for u, but a good morale boost I guess.

We are going to see the same old thing I done in the past, no knew news.

Your Crimea thing is blocked, what a waste of mobile units. Where they going now back where they came from or sit around for a few months until lines are even with Crimea?

[chaos45]

Crimea served a purpose [8D]

In all honesty if I had committed one more tank army I probably could have captured your entire force there, my fault for under committing. Thought 3 tank armies and a reinforced infantry army would be enough but you shift a couple extra divisions there during the mud turn.

Is a method to my madness.

Plus I was able to ship some of your hungarian lackies off to Siberia [:D]

Ehh its all about attrition, is the name of the game...2:1 is all I need its the magic number based on replacements for both sides. I will bleed my formations as long as I can keep a 2:1 exchange rate.

Also realize the bug destroyed my morale building program so now all my units are at NM will takes months and months to rebuild that....so mise well just switch tactics to pure attrition till you break or run. I lost all my spearhead units I was building CV wise. Now all my armies are the same no CV difference aside from commander rolls.

Your options will be run or bleed.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

The patch was very bad for your game chaos. I wonder, however, if the morale reduction for cavalry corps is really such a bad deal for future games. I think people just have to change their strategy. Build less cavalry corps and more rifle corps. Rifle Corps are much more important in 44 and 45 then anything else. Infantry grinds the Axis down.

Changing this mid-game is nasty of course.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

The patch was very bad for your game chaos. I wonder, however, if the morale reduction for cavalry corps is really such a bad deal for future games. I think people just have to change their strategy. Build less cavalry corps and more rifle corps. Rifle Corps are much more important in 44 and 45 then anything else. Infantry grinds the Axis down.

Changing this mid-game is nasty of course.

Most people really don't have Cav as part of there general tragedy for Russia.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Crimea served a purpose [8D]

In all honesty if I had committed one more tank army I probably could have captured your entire force there, my fault for under committing. Thought 3 tank armies and a reinforced infantry army would be enough but you shift a couple extra divisions there during the mud turn.

Is a method to my madness.

Plus I was able to ship some of your hungarian lackies off to Siberia [:D]

Ehh its all about attrition, is the name of the game...2:1 is all I need its the magic number based on replacements for both sides. I will bleed my formations as long as I can keep a 2:1 exchange rate.

Also realize the bug destroyed my morale building program so now all my units are at NM will takes months and months to rebuild that....so mise well just switch tactics to pure attrition till you break or run. I lost all my spearhead units I was building CV wise. Now all my armies are the same no CV difference aside from commander rolls.

Your options will be run or bleed.

I lost allot of morale also elite units to 85 is no fun as they are my fire brigde and now its gone.

My options are no different then the ones I have every single game past 42, this game is no different for me, but new for u.

Only difference has been bugs and new replacement rates

Was not hard to block the Crimea thing as I could see build up for several turns and is a standard move, u just commited far more then most to do same job.

You could have bleed more by slowly pushing me west instead of a few battles. That's allot of wasted trucks to supply mobile units doing nothing in a sea of mud.

Game at this point is about trucks, the bleeding and retreating thing is a given coded into game.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Most people really don't have Cav as part of there general tragedy for Russia.

Generally, when I play the Russians I try not to have a tragedy. LOL