See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-B Scen28

[Lowpe]

Bombardments can be perilous, that is for sure!

Hope you guys work thru it without difficulties.

[jwolf]

There is some discussion among the experts in Walker's thread as to what exactly went wrong with his bombardment mission. I'm not in position to comment as the technical details are way over my head as a rookie. But I think it is fair to say that it wasn't a bug but a legitimate snafu by the Japanese TF. I'm just glad to see that these miracle bombardments can, occasionally, have a downside.

[apbarog]

Hopefully there is a logical reason for what happened, whatever that is (since I don't know yet, and don't want to know until I get the turn). We can all learn from the answer then. Sometimes things just go wrong. For a task force to deviate as much at my opponent says his did, I hope there is a good reason, and one that is avoidable in the future.

We're having a nice friendly game, and I don't want to win a battle with my opponent feeling that the computer logic cheated him somehow. Hopefully that isn't the situation. I'd consider redoing the turn if the problem is not the fault of my opponent, and is deemed serious enough, and the consensus is that that is the fair thing to do. However, if a player choice caused the problem, that's not a reason to redo the turn. I know that I've made plenty of mistakes in the game that I'd like to take back. (see recent loss of Idaho by lack of LR CAP)

But as I said, our game is a gentleman's game. We want to win, play a challenging game, but not do so by exploiting the game engine or play a game that in no way resembles WW2.

The playing of the game is too much fun to worry about winning at the end. As I've said before, the end of the game is depressing for me, playing either side, winning or losing. It's the journey that matters. We won't let this problem change that.

[apbarog]

I'm aware of my opponent's discussion in the Tech Support area regarding his unexpected bombardment task force movement. I haven't read the thread, as requested, but my opponent does tell me that the consensus seems to be that his bombardment movement was not a bug. He hopes to be able to work on his turn tomorrow, so I may have a turn tomorrow evening. Then I'll finally get to see what actually happened. He did mention that cruisers and destroyers were involved, no capital ships.

I'm looking forward to getting back to the game. I don't want to know the combat details until I see the turn, so let's not discuss that until then.

[apbarog]

My opponent's work commitments mean that I won't get a turn before tomorrow. Then it sounds like the game will continue on, accepting the strange bombardment task force movement as is.

Knowing that no capital ships were involved, it can't be all that disasterous for the Japanese. We've had very light losses in the war so far. I've lost a slow Brit battleship in the Indian Ocean, a battleship at Pearl Harbour, 2 slow battleships at Tabiteuea, and recently slow battleship Idaho at Milne Bay. No enemy battleships have been lost. I'm not aware of any enemy carriers being lost, but there is a possiblility of one or two from the battle at New Guinea. Maybe one or two enemy cruisers, that's it. Very light.

It's time for the Japanese to start to get the mindset that they are going to lose their ships.

[jwolf]

It's time for the Japanese to start to get the mindset that they are going to lose their ships.

Amen, brother! [8D]

[apbarog]

11 Dec 42

I finally got the much talked about turn.

First, battleships Yamato and Kongo and escorts run into 4 PTs at Rossel Island. The fight is non conclusive at long range. The ships then bombard Rossel, destroying a few P40s and damaging most if not all of the rest. Lots of non-combat troops disrupted. Some damage to the airfield and port.

Up in the Aleutians, I'd spotted an enemy sub that was staying in one place. I sent a single AM to find the sub, and it did. It got one good depth charge hit.

During the night turn, I could see a task force moving southeast toward Rennell Island, so whatever reason it moved that way, it was doing so from the beginning of the turn. I saw no indications of reaction movement, but that doesn't mean that it didn't occur.

During the day, the task force in question arrived at Rennell Island, finding 4 PT boats, and then sinking one of the PTs. The enemy task force had 1 CA, 2 CLs, and 7 DDs.

That task force then ran into my task force with 2 medium tankers and destroyer Le Triomphant. All of my ships were sunk. I think that the tankers were unloading the day before. I'm sure that I told everything except the PTs to leave the area, but these guys didn't. Maybe I forgot to cancel the unloading, who knows. Stuff happens.

Then my air attacks started on his ships, now a couple of hexes northwest of Rennell Island. So they moved to Rennell, did not bombard, and then moved to the northwest, maybe toward the intended Tagula Island destination.

27 SBDs get 4 hits on CA Kumano and 2 hits on CL Naka.
18 Albacores get 2 torpedo hits on already damaged CL Naka.
18 SBDs get 4 hits on CL Jintsu.
26 SBDs get 2 hits on DD Hagikaze and 1 hit on CA Kumano.
17 Albacores target just destroyers and all miss.
18 SBDs get 2 hits on CL Naka and 2 hits on CL Jintsu, sinking Jintsu.
Finally, 6 B-25s flying at low level get 2 bomb hits on CL Naka.

So, a good day for the Allies, except for losing the tankers and destroyer. The enemy definitely loses a CL, and probably loses a CA and another CL, and maybe a destoyer.

Certainly not a complete disaster for the Japanese. Not a good day, but it doesn't rank up there with my losing 2 battleships in combat with 3 heavy cruisers.

Not sure what happens next. I need to spend some time with this turn. My carriers can approach Rossel or Tagula or Milne Bay, or head towards Rennel, but I'm not sure that there is a reason. I'll spend the rest of tonight working on this, and I'm hoping for multiple turns over the weekend.

[apbarog]

11 Dec 42 (continued)

KB continues to stay very close to friendly airbases. Damaged enemy ships are still near Rennell Island. Battleships are returning to Rabaul, and there are lots of ships there.

Today I move my carriers north within range of Milne Bay and Rossel Island, and everything in between. In Australia, I start to reload the infantry division to head to Milne Bay. I really want to get that reinforcement to Milne Bay, and solidify my defense there.

I could have made an all-out effort to get the damaged enemy ships, but I chose not to. I figure either the ships will run full speed north, or KB will come down to protect it, or both. I'm sure that it have heavy CAP. I pull my bombers out of Lunga. There may be a retaliatory raid here.

Rossel Island is in bad shape from the battleship bombardments. Damage is heavy to the airfield and moderate to the port. Worst of all, all supply was eliminated.

I have ships with supply on the way to Rossel and Milne Bay. Also, some Cats will ferry in a small amount of supply.

The accidental enemy raid on Rennell Island inadvertantly pushed back my plan to invade Munda. The troops for that landing are at Rennell, and it is too close to KB to have big task forces loading there. Munda will happen, just not this week.

Elsewhere, B-24s will bomb Tabiteuea from Ndeni, at maximum range.

I moved damaged CVE Long Island to Noumea for repairs. Long Island has 60 FLOT damage, and I wanted to try out the 20,000 ton ARD that I have at Noumea. It'll work, but it'll take 183 days to repair! This is my first AE game as the Allies, so this is new to me. I don't know if I'll repair there or not.

I've started moving some stuff around for some action not in the New Guinea area.

[jwolf]

Your subs might be able to get some shots on the damaged ships as they move north from Rennell. One torpedo would probably sink a cruiser that already had a lot of damage.

[BBfanboy]

ARDs are meant to fix up small amounts of float damage so the ship can get back in the action sooner. Tying one up for six months would be criminal. Long Island should be able to make Brisbane from Noumea.

[Lowpe]

Glad everything worked out ok...

LeTrioumphante is my favorite Allied ship, pity you lost here. IMO, she was wasted escorting oilers. She is a super destroyer and should be used with other good destroyers in a Desron.

[BBfanboy]

+1 Lowpe - Le Triomphant has a good commander and working torpedoes, and her 138mm (5.4") shells seem to do much more damage than the standard US 5" EBR shell. In several games I have played she acquitted herself well in both surface combat and ASW battles. Her AA is initially weak though (but so are all the allied DDs).

[apbarog]

What got my attention with LeTrioumphante was its long range. I had been using it for long range convoy duty, figuring it was self sufficient and a bit unique in the game. I didn't want to group it with dissimilar destroyers. I will certainly take another look at it in some future campaign.

[apbarog]

12 Dec 42

Plans change. Today I'm changing plans.

The day starts out with I-22 firing 8 torpedoes at BB South Dakota, and getting 2 hits. The ship will survive, with 34 SYS and FLOT of (22/14), but this sends another battleship to the shipyards. South Dakota will probably go to the West Coast, taking it out of action for many months. BB Washington has very minor SYS damage, and has been escorting carriers, but it did lose its main forward gun, and should be sent for repairs also.

Rossel's airfield is essentially closed, with only damaged planes on the ground. Adjacent Tagula is open, and has about 10 operational fighters on it.

First 18 Zeros sweep Tagula. Most of the P39s are destroyed, taking out a couple of Zeros.

Then 40 Zeros sweep Milne Bay. I have 16 Kittyhawks and 9 Martlets on CAP. Friendly losses are twice the enemy's.

A couple of small Zero fragments then sweep Milne Bay.

Then 110 Zeros sweep Rossel Island! 110! That's laughable really. It's amusing because there was no CAP left.

Then 99 Kates escorted by 87 Zeros bomb Rossel's airfield, doing moderate damage and taking out some more planes.

To add insult to injury, 9 Jakes then attack. Not sure what their target was. It says afternoon air attack on Rossel Island, but says Naval attack down below.

10 B-26s bomb enemy troops at Port Moresby. The reconaissance by bombing confirms what I already knew, that the 1st Infantry Division is there.

Well, I could have had 100 fighters at Rossel and it wouldn't have gone well. Time to take a new look at things.

My plan was to take Rossel, Tagula, Deboyne, and Milne Bay, and build up these bases to threaten further advances. Buna has been in my sights all along. I hoped to encircle Port Moresby and the 25,000 men that I'm seeing there.

The building will continue. The enemy bombardments and bombings are preventing me from putting up worthwhile CAP, and KB sitting nearby is preventing me from doing anything to intercept the naval bombardments.

I am attacking into the teeth of the enemy. I knew that I was doing this, and things went relatively well with my invasions. I have footholds. But with the current situation, I cannot go further here. The enemy has committed the vast majority of its aircraft and navy here.

My carriers are a worry. I cannot lose any. I'm about to lose the Brit carrier that has been in my task forces, as it is due to withdraw shortly. That leaves me with too few carriers to standup to KB and all of the land-based aircraft in the area.

My original plans are not cancelled. I just cannot proceed right now. All of the troops prepped and prepping for landings on New Guinea and the Solomons are still doing so. I will continue to try to build up my bases, slipping in supply when I can. I feared counter-landings, and they still might occur, but it hasn't happened so far, and I was more vulnerable earlier.

I need to stir up trouble elsewhere.

I am going to tentatively proceed with landings at Nauru and Ocean Islands. The troops have been fully prepped. Nauru is an airfield 1. Ocean is a 0. If I can approach unseen, I will proceed. If not, I will not.

What do I have going for me right now? KB seems tied to friendly airfields. When it wants to contest Rossel and Tagula, KB moves adjacent to Buin. When it wants to contest Milne Bay, KB moves next to Lae. Every time. I have a good number of subs in the area, but they have been very poor at even spotting the enemy, much less attacking or hitting them. But I have used them more defensively, trying to interdict routes to Rossel and Milne Bay. This has been unsuccessful. Bombardments have driven right over them unseen. I'm changing my tactics and going after KB. And I'm going to flood the zone with subs, just the enemy has done south of Milne Bay. I have a good number of subs there now, but I have many more on the way. December is a big refit month for subs, so I have a lot of them coming out of refit now.

I will flood the zone. I have to get lucky eventually. The enemy has had good luck with subs. It's my turn. In January, the effectiveness of the US torpedoes will increase somewhat, so that will help some.

I will hit KB with subs. As long as KB stays in that confined part of the Coral Sea, I have a good shot at hitting a carrier, eventually. Dutch subs and "S" subs are here too.

[apbarog]

13 Dec 42

I sent a nuisance raid to Horn Island. 15 B-26s bomb the airfield, doing moderate damage. No CAP.

B-24s from Ndeni fly at maximum range to bomb Tabiteuea's airfield. Damage is slight to moderate. No CAP.

I found an AK task force, with an AV in it, at Madang on New Guinea. Seawolf goes into the shallows to investigate, misses a patrol boat with 2 torpedoes, and takes a solid depth charge hit. Damage is in the 20's, so the sub will be fine. It is now returning to base.

My carriers and lots of support shipping are moving to Luganville. Troops need to be picked up at Koumac, Rossel Island, and Vanikoro Island for the invasions of Nauru and Ocean Islands. ARDs at Noumea are moving to Ndeni to be close to the front.

KB went back to Rabaul. Lots of my subs are being spotted. I just keep moving them.

I did get small supply task forces into Milne Bay and Rossel Island today. CAP is almost nonexistant at both, but no enemy planes showed up.

One complication is that Brit carrier Indomitable is due to withdraw in 3 weeks. I may not be able to finish my invasions and get the ship to Sydney in time. I decided to just pay the political points if that happens. I need the ship for this.

Wasp continues to repair at Sydney. Lexington repairs at Pearl. Both are out of action for at least another month. Brisbane and Sydney are full of repairing ships. CVE Long Island, which moved to Suva for me to try out an ARD, will be moving to Auckland for repairs.

[apbarog]

14 Dec 42

I do unload more supply at Rossel Island today. Repairs to the airfield and port continue.

xAK Minnesotan is sunk southwest of Milne Bay. It had a small number of motorized support, a fragment of a unit already at Milne Bay.

The sweeps return to Milne Bay during the day. I have about a dozen fighters here. Groups of 28 and 16 Zeros sweep. I lose 6 fighters and shoot down 2 Zeros.

Minnesotan would have been at Milne Bay had it not been torpedoed. At Milne Bay, it probably would have been sunk anyway. KB has found a new little hiding place, this one on the north coast of New Britain, west of Rabaul. 7 hexes from Milne Bay.

The enemy is obsessed with keeping KB close to the fight, but not exposing it to danger. I'm adding this hiding spot to the list of preferred locations. And I'm sending a minelaying sub here, since it is a coastal hex.

My carriers continue to be seen by Glens as they move toward Luganville.

SigInt says that the 83rd Naval Guard is defending Nauru. We'll find out soon enough.

[BBfanboy]

Very surprised he is keeping KB in the area for minimal benefit while giving away its position. Sure it is making things harder for you but you are able to get supplies through and he has not managed a counter-invasion. It is just a matter of time before you can apply more pressure than he can resist. KB should be trying flank attacks or something.

[jwolf]

Well it looks to me that both players are being justifiably cautious with their carriers, fearing otherwise a Midway style devastating defeat. But time is in the Allies' favor here and the Japanese might be -- emphasis might -- losing their last chance to dictate terms of engagement.

[Lowpe]

This is a very enjoyable fight to read both sides from.

Keep up the exciting play![&o]

[apbarog]

Thanks Lowpe. It would be easy for me to sit back and wait until the summer of '43 to get moving offensively, but I wanted to keep things interesting for both sides. And I've told my opponent that. I got lucky with our first carrier engagement, and I think that has helped solidify the enemy's intentions as being purely defensive. That's a win in my book.

If I can keep building Milne Bay and the islands, Rabaul will be threatened directly by air.

My intentions at Nauru and Ocean Islands are to try and spread out the enemy some. Everything is concentrated between Shortlands, Rabaul, to Port Moresby. Time to at least threaten a flanking move.

15 Dec 42

KB stays in its safe spot west of Rabaul on the coast.

Zeros sweep Milne Bay. Then Bettys and Helens and Sallys bomb the airfield. One squadron from KB sweeps also. I had fewer than 10 fighters operational. I think the enemy had more OPS losses than I had shot down. Damage to the airfield is moderate.

One of my subchaser groups finds I-122 and gets a good hit south of Tagula Island. I have several groups out looking, as well as a destroyer ASW group. Lots of targets.

The enemy lands at Sarmi on northern New Guinea. It was an Allied dot base.

My ships are gathering at Luganville. Troops are loading at Koumac. Loading elsewhere will begin in a couple of turns. The Koumac troops have further to travel. One of my carrier groups is spotted at Luganville. I'm sure there are plenty of subs between Ndeni and Nauru. It's nearly impossible to move around unseen at the front. To the rear, I'm fine. My cargo task forces are almost never spotted. Fuel and supply has been delivered in quantity without loss for a long time. The enemy subs are being used at the front.

I have a task force with a couple of CLs and some DDs south of Rossel Island. I'm running it full speed into Torokino with bombardment orders. There are some xAKs there today. I hope to take them out and run home to Rennell Island. LR CAP is provided if they don't make it all the way home (and make it far enough from target).