Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Rio Bravo »

ORIGINAL: fcharton

December 14th 1941

Gallant Boise


Since the beginning of the war, after signal intelligence have been announcing landings in Mauban (which have yet to materialize), Boise and Houston have been stalking around Naga, in the hope of catching a landing force in the South Philippines. They found, or were found (this is not clear) today by an enemy cruiser squadron.

Four Japanese CA, and four destroyers, against Boise and Houston, the prospects were not good… A first night engagement was inconclusive

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Oboro
DD Uzuki
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Houston
CL Boise, Shell hits 1


With CA Kako on fire, the next night engagement favored the US cruisers.

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, on fire
DD Oboro, Shell hits 1
DD Uzuki
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CL Boise, Shell hits 2

Night Time Surface Combat, near Legaspi at 83,83, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, on fire
DD Oboro
DD Uzuki
DD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Houston
CL Boise, Shell hits 2


But at sunrise, my cruisers could not compensate their numerical inferiority.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Catbalogan at 84,84, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Aoba, Shell hits 1
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Oboro
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 1
DD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 1
CL Boise, Shell hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage


Boise sank on the way home. Houston is only lightly hit. Kinugasa shows up as sunk, and I suspect Kako is not in a good shape, and not very close to base. Losing Boise is sad, but if we really traded her for two Japanese cruisers, it was worth the loss.

Meanwhile in Burma

Port Blair now sports over 100 AV. Most of the small units that begin the war on the coast of Burma, near Thailand, have been evacuated. I now need engineers to build the airfield and forts. I am also considering reinforcing another base in the Andamans.

In Burma, two Indian brigades are unloading in Rangoon, and two more will arrive in a few days. Calcutta is getting the rest of the early commonwealth reinforcements. There is still no sign of an advance on Burma, and no attempt to dispute air superiority over Rangoon. Moulmein is being garrisoned and fortified, so that if the Japanese advance with too little (one reinforced division, which is what I usually divert for Burma), their first attempt will fail, and the more troops Japan nees in Burma, the less there is for the Indies and South Pacific. I do not hope to defend Burma, but I believe keeping it Allied for a while can only help China.

Chinese roadblocks

In northern China, the area between Tsiaotso and Yenan is being garrisoned. 500 AV are in the mountain hex on the road to Sian, and the Japanese column advancing towards them apparently decided to double back. Tsiaotso has 1100 AV, forts going up. In Yenan, the 8th route army is recovering nicely, with morale in the 80s, and will make for a decent reserve.

Two Japanese columns are marching on Changsha. I have my doubts about the feasibility of such an early offensive. Changsha has good terrain, large stacking limits, some supply producing industry, and level four forts. I have good units in the area, and a lot of headquarters to provide support.

Ichang was abandoned and recaptured, its level three forts intact.

In Central China, most enemy efforts concentrate on Wenchow. I have good units there, but I am seriously contemplating evacuating, and marching my troops south, towards Kukong and Kweilin.

In the south, nothing happens except a few bombardments by planes based in Canton. I sent a few Chinese bombers attack the port Haiphong today, and a Japanese unit that had advanced in the plains, just to try to keep my opponent honest.

Slow steamrolling

So far, the Japanese advance has been rather slow. Wake was captured but not Guam or Tarawa. Yesterday, Vanimo was the first New Guinean base invaded. There were no moves, yet, against Rabaul, Kavieng or the Solomons, and no invasion of Singkawang or Miri, followed those of Kuching and Brunei.

This allows me to reinforce a few areas. I have evacuated most of the troops that begin the war in New Guinea to Port Moresby. Ambon and Horn Island were reinforced as well.

Malaysia is the only theater where Japan seems to move fast. Since there were no landings on Mersing, most of my troops will make it to Singapore, and I will try to evacuate some of them to reinforce Ceylon and India. I probably can hope Singapore to hold until January (late January would be ideal). In the Philippines, enemy intentions are unclear. Neither Mindanao nor any of the Philippine islands have been invaded, and Luzon seems to be progressing relatively slowly.

KB is nowhere in sight, but I suppose I will know soon enough where the next enemy push is meant to happen.

fcharton-

Ah, the Boisie!

I too lost the Boisie early on after she alone engaged a Japanese Combat surface fleet. She was heavily outnumbered but managed to inflict some serious hits before she slipped under the waves.

I am liking your aggressive defense more and more.

Good luck!

-Best Regards,

-Terry

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by fcharton »

December 15th 1941

Q-ships


At the very bottom of the map, west of the Gambiers, a fleet of cargoes on their way to Panama were attacked today by Japanese merchant cruisers.

Japanese Ships
AMC Aikoku Maru
AMC Hokoku Maru, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
TK Fosna, Shell hits 3, on fire
xAK Peshawur, Shell hits 8, on fire
xAK Arizonan
xAK Dakotan, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
xAK Puerto Rican
xAK Santa Rita, Shell hits 1
xAK Atlanta City
xAK Andrea Luckenbach, Shell hits 3, on fire


Peshawur and Dakotan are on fire, and will probably sink. The rest will make it to the Gambiers provided enemy cruiser do not chase them. Incidentally, two US carriers are in this area. With a little luck, I might catch the Q-ships.

The siege of Taiping

Having bypassed Alor Star and captured Georgetown, the IJA reached Taiping. The token force I left there managed to hold for a day. The base will fall tomorrow. Most of my troops in Malaya are now south of a line that goes from Mersing to Kluong. I have evacuated the third Indian corps artillery, and one of the two air HQ that begin the game in Singapore (air HQ, and commonwealth heavy weapons, are rare enough to be worth saving). A number of transports are now arriving in Singapore. I want to try and evacuate the third corps, first to Palembang, and then maybe to Oosthaven and India.

Building Burma

Three Indian brigades are now unloading in Rangoon. One more is on the way. I have reconned Rahaeng since the beginning of the war, but the invasion column is nowhere to be seen. Moulmein and Rangoon are both building nicely. I have good hopes of derailing a first attempt at capturing southern Burma.

That is pretty much all there was to this turn. In other news, a handful of light cargoes were sunk around the Philippines, we lost four planes each in inconclusive engagement, a depleted Chinese division was defeated. December routine…
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by fcharton »

December 16th 1941

Souffre-douleur


That is the French for whipping boy, and in AE parlance, you’d say “AM Penguin”. In every game I have seen, this poor ship which begins the war in Guam either stumbles on KB on its way back from Hawaii, or is found by Nells out of Guam, or just gets forgotten, and is sunk once Guam is captured. In this game, with the invasion of Guam postponed for a while, and no bombardment happening, I did try to evacuate the little ship... and send it to Midway.

But a curse lies of the poor penguin

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso
DD Minekaze
DD Sawakaze
DD Okikaze
DD Yakaze

Allied Ships
AM Penguin, Shell hits 15, and is sunk


New Guinea rising

So far, precious nothing happened in this theater, which gave me a lot of time to evacuate everything to Port Moresby. Vanimo was invaded a few days ago, and today, there were landings in Kavieng. My last transport convoy to Port Moresby, one AP ordered to repatriate Lark Battalion is a day off Rabaul, and had three cruisers in her escort. I might as well detach them and see if I can sink some unloading ships.

KB is still nowhere in sight. As its last documented position was not west of Hawaii, I suspected it might appear in the South Pacific, but with most of the action in the South China Sea…

The slow buildup in New Guinea is a good thing for me. Port Moresby is now 160 AV strong, it will end up over 200 once Rabaul is evacuated, and forts are building nicely (slowly though, but in DaBabes everything is slow).

Out of mines

Most of the minelayers I am issues at game start use the same model of mines: VH MkII. All the Dutch and Australian boats use them, and after mining Merak, Palembang, Balikpapan and a few other bases, I am out of those, and production is at a lofty 30/month… I have one usable ship left: CM Oglala, now in Pearl Harbor, the rest will retire, and become patrol boats for convoys.

I have almost a thousand mines of other models in the pool, does anyone know how one can trace the ships that might use them?

Two to tango

In China, having noticed how deadly Idas and Anns can be over clear terrain, I thought it was worth a try. The B17 from the Philippines, which are useless now that my opponent has good fighters all around, have been relocated to Chungking (the only base that would accommodate them), and began bombing Japanese unit crossing the central plains (and therefore difficult to CAP). A few Chinese bomber squadrons joined the fray.

The first results were underwhelming, but I am transferring more bombers to China. This is probably the best use for my heavy bombers right now (and an almost ideal training ground).

Morning Air attack on 35th/B Division, at 87,45 , near Chengchow

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Elsewhere in China, we are about to see if my early attempt at troop concentration work. A very large column is marching on Changsha. I have 500 AV in the woods (three Chinese corps), one hex away (and a lot more behind forts in Changsha). We had a first bombardment probe today, which did not do any damage, and revealed over 700 AV of Japanese units, who must be close to the stacking limit. I am pretty certain that this forward outpost is doomed, as more troops are apparently on their way, but it is too late to retreat.

In Shanxi, in the mountain hex, near Tsiaotso, on the northern road to Sian, the Japanese tried a deliberate attack which didn’t work as advertised.

Ground combat at 88,41 (near Kaoping)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 22457 troops, 196 guns, 40 vehicles, Assault Value = 657
Defending force 18915 troops, 147 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 449
Japanese adjusted assault: 236
Allied adjusted defense: 334
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
682 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 66 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled

Allied ground losses:
418 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 54 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Enemy troops have been seen retreating. Reinforcements are on their way from Sian, and more are available in Tsiaotso. I am under the impression that my opponent is not focused on northern China. Kaoping, next to Tsiaotso, has been abandoned, nothing seems to be moving towards Yenan or west of Paotow (Paotow might actually be abandoned), and this northern column to Sian seems to be retreating.

Hong Kong holds

Much to my surprise, a deliberate attack on Hong Kong failed today. Losses were low, but odds were bad, which means disablement, rest, and more time before the city falls.

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 14349 troops, 251 guns, 169 vehicles, Assault Value = 403
Defending force 7890 troops, 133 guns, 79 vehicles, Assault Value = 168
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 2)

Japanese ground losses:
282 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Allied ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

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Yaab
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Yaab »

I always use the Dutch CMc and minelaying subs who carry 12-30 mines for minelaying. All CMc loading 50-75 mines are collected at start and moved somewhere safe i.e Christmas Island 10, so they do not drain the Dutch mine pool.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Lowpe »

I saw poor Penguin live once in an Obvert game.[;)]

I am not sure that basing 4E in Chungking is a good idea....we will see what happens.

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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Yaab »

It is a great idea. You can maximise eng squad numbers in the Chungking's units at start plus move some nearby corps into the city to help with airfield construction, and you should have level 5 airfield in Chungking in 10-14 days. Thus, B-17 will fly with the full set of bombs.

B-17s in Chungking are the best help Allies can provide to China in the early war.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by BBfanboy »

Unless Tracker can help you with it, the only way I know of to trace Mine types to ships/subs that can use them is to use the All Ships display button at the top of the screen, deselect everything, then click on mine vessels, DDs and Subs. You only need to look at one example of each class of these to see what mine type, if any, they can carry.

IIRC most or all of the US DDs cannot lay mines, but Dutch and British/Australian/NZ ones can. Not sure about the Indian DEs.

Look for CM Abdiel - carries a lot of mines and is very fast - capable of 40 kts in RL. Has decent AA armament for a minelayer so getting caught on the return trip isn't always a death sentence! The down side is it takes a lot of ops points to lay that many mines.

Most US subs can lay a few mines but only a few can lay quite a few. Argonaut take 40 IIRC, and Dolphin or Drum (whichever one has the 6000 nm range) can carry about 20. Can't remember what Narwhal and Nautilus take, but they are probably more valuable as SSTs and mine pools/production are so poor that you do not really need to risk them mining enemy ports (which may already have Japanese mines in them).

When looking at your mine pools and production numbers, also note that a lot of mines on the list cease production in 12/41 or in 1942. Then to complicate things the Upgrades must convert some mine ships to carry different types, or even remove the mine rails completely in favour of AA guns!

Lets call the whole mine game "Minecraft[:'(]" ...
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

It is a great idea. You can maximise eng squad numbers in the Chungking's units at start plus move some nearby corps into the city to help with airfield construction, and you should have level 5 airfield in Chungking in 10-14 days. Thus, B-17 will fly with the full set of bombs.

B-17s in Chungking are the best help Allies can provide to China in the early war.

I beg to differ, but we shall see what happens.[:)]
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Yaab »

There is only a handful of B-17Ds at start. Some of the units do not upgrade to B-17E and get withdrawn after some time. If Japs start a fast offensive in China from the get-go aimed at i.e Changsha, the B-17Ds represent the most powerful Allied aid to China available at start. I cannot think of any other offensive asset (arty, tanks, LCU etc) that can be relocated to China as fast as the B-17Ds. Actually, their mere presence in Chungking should boost the Chinese morale by 10 points or so across the whole Chinese army.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by spence »

Once you've got the base built up and a bit of training perhaps you can find some industry within range of Chungking for your B-17s. You can try a bit of recon with those longer ranged x-Russian bomber types to find something juicy for the bigger bombload that the B-17s can carry.

I'd watch carefully to make sure you don't burn up too much supply getting ready though. You can always pull the bombers back to India though for their training.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

There is only a handful of B-17Ds at start. Some of the units do not upgrade to B-17E and get withdrawn after some time. If Japs start a fast offensive in China from the get-go aimed at i.e Changsha, the B-17Ds represent the most powerful Allied aid to China available at start. I cannot think of any other offensive asset (arty, tanks, LCU etc) that can be relocated to China as fast as the B-17Ds. Actually, their mere presence in Chungking should boost the Chinese morale by 10 points or so across the whole Chinese army.

If I could get B-17s to Chungking right away I'd be burning down HI as fast I as I could at the big eastern China industrial cities. Bombing moving ground troops won't make much difference in the medium term. Every HI not produced in early 1942 is important in the long game, as is the supply to repair them if/when. And having Japan need to air-defend industry right now is gravy elsewhere too.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I saw poor Penguin live once in an Obvert game.[;)]

I got Penguin to Dutch Harbor in one game. The key is to go very close to the HI, ironically at that time one of the safest transit zones on the map.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by fcharton »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
If I could get B-17s to Chungking right away I'd be burning down HI as fast I as I could at the big eastern China industrial cities. Bombing moving ground troops won't make much difference in the medium term. Every HI not produced in early 1942 is important in the long game, as is the supply to repair them if/when. And having Japan need to air-defend industry right now is gravy elsewhere too.

Chinese HI is mostly in Shanghai and in Manchuria. Manchuria out of range, Shanghai is 21 hexes away, close to the maximum extended range of B17D (and other HI producing cities are at the same extreme range). With just a dozen planes flying from relatively small airfield, and with abominable service ratings, I don't think this would work.

Francois

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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: fcharton
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
If I could get B-17s to Chungking right away I'd be burning down HI as fast I as I could at the big eastern China industrial cities. Bombing moving ground troops won't make much difference in the medium term. Every HI not produced in early 1942 is important in the long game, as is the supply to repair them if/when. And having Japan need to air-defend industry right now is gravy elsewhere too.

Chinese HI is mostly in Shanghai and in Manchuria. Manchuria out of range, Shanghai is 21 hexes away, close to the maximum extended range of B17D (and other HI producing cities are at the same extreme range). With just a dozen planes flying from relatively small airfield, and with abominable service ratings, I don't think this would work.

Francois

The D has a bit better range than the E, and is worth keeping just for that as long as possible.

I don't have the map open, but does Canton work? Shanghai in a night bombing would get you a few HI destroyed.

I agree you don't have enough to make a major dent, the Allied story everywhere in the first year. And as others have said I wouldn't put B-17s in China. I put them in Oz. But if they're there already and the choice is any HI destruction at all versus disabling 150 IJA troops on the march, I'd go for industry. You might get one freebie day strike on HI itself rather than Manpower, but then I'd go to nights.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by FeurerKrieg »

What about oil/fuel? Are there any well/refineries that you can hit that are closer to Chungking than Shanghai? Oil and fuel are usually in short supply in the long run.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by fcharton »

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
What about oil/fuel? Are there any well/refineries that you can hit that are closer to Chungking than Shanghai? Oil and fuel are usually in short supply in the long run.

Not yet... At the beginning of the war, the KMT holds all the wells and refineries, and the only infrastructure that can be targetted is resources or light industry. Once Sian falls, of course...

I see the basing of B-17 in China as an opportunistic move. I have little use for them in the Philippines right now, they are efficient in clear terrain and China has a lot of this, using them will train the pilots, and might slow the japanese advance by making my opponent cautious. The risk is very limited: it is only a dozen planes, and their long range allow them to transfer as far as Karachi, Ceylon or Java. Until all the DEI falls, I can rebase them anywhere I choose.

Francois

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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg
What about oil/fuel? Are there any well/refineries that you can hit that are closer to Chungking than Shanghai? Oil and fuel are usually in short supply in the long run.

Not yet... At the beginning of the war, the KMT holds all the wells and refineries, and the only infrastructure that can be targetted is resources or light industry. Once Sian falls, of course...

I see the basing of B-17 in China as an opportunistic move. I have little use for them in the Philippines right now, they are efficient in clear terrain and China has a lot of this, using them will train the pilots, and might slow the japanese advance by making my opponent cautious. The risk is very limited: it is only a dozen planes, and their long range allow them to transfer as far as Karachi, Ceylon or Java. Until all the DEI falls, I can rebase them anywhere I choose.

Francois


Canton is 14 and has 81 HI.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Kofiman »

I would be very, very wary to remind your opponent that bombing industry in China is a thing, if your opponent is not already doing so. Your opponent would only need to make up the loss in industry by shipping a few more supplies. You can't, and thus have much more to lose. I would recommend not reminding your opponent of such a weakness.
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by fcharton »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Canton is 14 and has 81 HI.

Only 20 in DaBabes, but Hong Kong once it falls (which is soon) is the more promising target.
ORIGINAL: Kofiman
I would be very, very wary to remind your opponent that bombing industry in China is a thing, if your opponent is not already doing so. Your opponent would only need to make up the loss in industry by shipping a few more supplies. You can't, and thus have much more to lose. I would recommend not reminding your opponent of such a weakness.

I am sure he knows enough about China to have no need to be reminded. But I am not sure strategic bombing in China is such a good idea, from a japanese point of view. Even if he doesn't capture all of China, most of the resource and supply producing bases will be his eventually, and keeping them producing is a good thing, because it allows him to feed HI industry with chinese resources, and alleviates the supply situation (which get harder and harder as the game goes on, as others have noticed, supplies, much more than HI or even oïl, is the limiting factor to Japanese expansion).

Anyway thanks for the comments, I will experiment on it and report back.

Francois
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RE: Being good, for a change – SqzMyLemon (J) vs fcharton (A)

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Kofiman

I would be very, very wary to remind your opponent that bombing industry in China is a thing, if your opponent is not already doing so. Your opponent would only need to make up the loss in industry by shipping a few more supplies. You can't, and thus have much more to lose. I would recommend not reminding your opponent of such a weakness.

Any opponent who needs to be reminded in this way isn't a very good player.
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