Day of Infamy Take 47 - a v3.2 PBEM Hans vs Strawb

[Capt. Harlock]

Concerning the airstrike that hit the "Warspite", are you sure it came from Akyab? According to my examination of the latest obc41 file, Akyab is in the database, but shouldn't appear on the map. Its location is 0,0, and it has no pathways to any other base. (And it's attached to Headquarters 0 -- in other words, IGHQ in Tokyo.)

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by Capt. Harlock
Concerning the airstrike that hit the "Warspite", are you sure it came from Akyab? According to my examination of the latest obc41 file, Akyab is in the database, but shouldn't appear on the map. Its location is 0,0, and it has no pathways to any other base. (And it's attached to Headquarters 0 -- in other words, IGHQ in Tokyo.)

The airstrike came from Akyab, no doubt about it.
I haven’t checked the database, but Akyab is on the map, with land paths to both Dacca and Rangoon.
Still, there’s something weird about that base. It appears as if taskforces based there get stuck ??

[strawb]

Remember - Akyab exists in some scenarios, not others to make AI work better.

War reports:

aaaaaaaarrggh! IJN BB force now very very bent (but not sunk) by combined Rn/USN CV force that seems to be using stealth technology off Fiji - my CV TF lurking on reaction a short distance away will NOT react (cowards).

My Fiji based G4M fare no better because RN CVs may be using biplanes to strike but their fighters are F4F and flying CAP quite nicely for Yankies.

Lack of CA/CL assets to produce a local defence TF allowed convoy to sneak into Broome just as Ausses were on last bullet and last brew.

So bit stuck relay as to my next target - focus on India and (re)commit more forces? Expereince in AI games suggest Calcutta is HARD to take. Push on up Islands to East of Fiji (but Big Bad Wolf waiting for me and not enough BB support now)? Leap to central pacific and go for big one? Finish of aussies?
OR dig in and safe fuel?

[Hans-Brink]

Washington Post
June 7, 1942

--FLASH--
Heavy combat continues outside Broome
Yet a week passed by with non-stop fierce fighting in the lowlands west of Broome.
The Japanese 48th Division, 1st Para brigade and the 35th Independent brigade, continued their massive attacks.
The defending Australian units are: 2nd Division, 11th -, 23rd -, 29th brigade, Gullforce and Sprwforce battalion.

This weeks losses were reported as:
Estimated Japanese losses: 708 men, 10 guns and 4 tanks.
Australian losses: 540 men and 14 guns.

Total losses can be counted in thousands on both sides by now.
--END FLASH--

--FLASH--
British offensive in India
As the weather cleared up early this week, British forces launched a full-scale offensive.
From Calcutta Lt. General Slim’s corps attacked the Japanese 2nd Guard the 55th division, and a newly arrived reinforcement formation, identified as the 33rd Division. Air and naval forces supported the attack with heavy bombardments.
Despite heavy British losses, Slim urged the SEAC HQ to continue the offensive, as he has seen clear signs on Japanese exhaustion during the fighting.
At the same time, Maj. General Stillwell ordered his corps to attack the 2/33 Brigade that had just arrived outside Ranchi. However, the CBI command was unable to commit maximum strength to the initial attack, and heavy Japanese resistance forced Stillwell to cancel the operation.
--END FLASH--

--FLASH--
Naval operations continues in the waters of Fiji
Yesterday, on a press conference in Washington, a representative from South Pacific Command released the following note.
--
During the past week, combined British and US naval forces conducted operations around Fiji Island.
As for now the purpose of these operations cannot be revealed, but it can be confirmed that in this theatre, Rear Admiral Scott and Rear Admiral Spruance are commanding strong surface and carrier groups, respectively.
Heavy shelling and air bombardment on Fiji ground forces, supply depots and airfields were conducted early last week. Patrols from Hornet spotted a Japanese taskforce heading for Scot’s battleships, comprising 4 battleships (including the Yamato), 4 heavy cruisers, 3 light cruisers and 7 destroyers.
The Japanese taskforce were attacked by wave after wave of Spruance’s planes. Nevertheless, they maintained course until they made contact with Scot’s surface group at Fiji.
By then, they had been badly mauled by the air strikes, which probably were the reason why they decided to retreat.
According to combat reports, the IJN lost:
1 heavy cruiser
2 light cruisers
1 destroyer
In addition several bomb hits caused severe damage to Yamato and another battleship, class unknown.
A few Japanese Bettys from Fiji made an attempt on the carriers, but all were shot down by CAP.
--
--END FLASH--

[Capt. Harlock]

Exciting reports--but you seem to have left out the identities of the Australian units. (Note to Strawb: if you think taking Calcutta is hard, wait till you try Sydney.)

Since it's June, are there any TBF Avengers in action?

[Aussie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hans-Brink
Washington Post
June 7, 1942

--FLASH--
Heavy combat continues outside Broome
Yet a week passed by with non-stop fierce fighting in the lowlands west of Broome.


Do you mean east? Otherwise the troops would have been fighting below sea level - literally.

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by Capt. Harlock
Exciting reports--but you seem to have left out the identities of the Australian units.

Whoooops!
I have filled in the missing text


Since it's June, are there any TBF Avengers in action?

There’s one squadron by now (on Wasp), but no factories to produce them though


(Note to Strawb: if you think taking Calcutta is hard, wait till you try Sydney.)

I would pu it this way. If you're thinking of taking Sydney.....THINK AGAIN

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by Aussie

Washington Post
June 7, 1942

--FLASH--
Heavy combat continues outside Broome
Yet a week passed by with non-stop fierce fighting in the lowlands west of Broome.


Do you mean east? Otherwise the troops would have been fighting below sea level - literally.

As the japanese advanced to Broome from Darwin, east is the last location I could think of.
Anyway, you got a point, so let’s call it southwest

[Hans-Brink]

Washington Post
June 14, 1942


--FLASH--
Grumman Engineering Corporation signs contract with the US navy
Since the outbreak of war, pilots serving on US carriers have made numerous complains over the planes they are flying. The aircrafts in question seem to have been the Wildcat in general, and the Devastator in particular. Most complains have been rejected, as manufactures and designers in the aircraft industry have claimed, that lack of experience among the pilots is the main reason for their problems.
Since early May, senior officers in the navy have supported the pilots in their criticism, and the last month, the navy has been looking for new contractors to provide better aircrafts, primarily to the carriers.
Yesterday, it seems as if the USN found a replacement for the Devastator as they signed a contract with Grumman Engineering Corporation, who recently developed a new torpedo bomber, called Avenger.
As the Avenger hasn’t been produced in large numbers, only one squadron has been equipped with this aircraft at present time.
--END FLASH--


--FLASH--
CMF officers in disarray
As fighting continues in the lowlands southwest of Broome, high ranking officers from CMF acknowledged the fact, that they can do nothing to rescue their units in northern Australia.
Also this week, Lt. General Emmons’s requests to both Washington and London, to initiate an evacuation have been refused.
According to reliable sources, several officers in Emmons’s staff have resigned in protest.

This weeks losses at Broome has been reported as:
Australian casualties: 801 men, 11 guns and 2 tanks.
Estimated Japanese casualties: 1018 men, 7 guns and 1 tank
--END FLASH--


--FLASH--
Allied offensive in Southeast Asia continues
During this week, British and CBI forces continued their attacks on Japanese positions at Calcutta and Myitkyina.
Though there have been no gains at present time, Lt. General Slim is optimistic. He claims the initial state of the offensive, to be a war of attrition. Once we achieve a breakthrough, the advance will be swift, he states
--END FLASH--


--FLASH--
More naval action at Fiji Island
Japanese Nells and Bettys operating from Fiji, successfully attacked an Allied replenish force at Tonga, 2 AOs were sunk.
In respond, Rear Admiral Spruance ordered several air strikes on the airfield, which hindered further Japanese air operations in the area. Nevertheless, 34 bombers from the island made an attack on the carriers, 3 of them got through the CAP, without scoring any hits though.
The following day, a Japanese convoy were spotted south of Fiji. Spruance committed 82 fighters and bombers in a strike on the vessels. 4 MCSs were sunk, and a destroyer was lightly damaged.
In a desperate attempt to support the convoy, 15 Nells and Bettys made an attack on Struance’s taskforce. Again, all of them were downed by the CAP.
--END FLASH--

[strawb]

which is as close as I can get in pidgeon Japanese to..

SCRATCH TWO FLAT TOPS!

Yes, Hans tried the Fiji run one time too many an my CVs finally got into action. NOT by reaction though as they kept failing do that as ComFlt has too few PP.

NO, I boldly (stupidly??) sent 4 CV (include fragile Soryu) into battle off Fiji with 3/4 USN and 3/2 RN CVs, knowing that I would give up first strike advantage if his CVs were there.

So 6 CV vs 4 - madness really for me; I packed every flak bearing gun ship I had into the TF and er... prayed. (in reality I think very few army units would have had an AA gun left as they are bolted to CVs and their escorts).

Sure enough Halsey(?) struck first, but my Zeros behaved better than they have for a long time vs the F4F and SBDs (as they do over their own TF I recall) , and so only (ONLY!!!) one slightly bent CV in my group. I ran the strikes on max delay: you would have seen a grown man with fingers crossed, willing on his flak gunners at every US air pass (what is it with this game???)

I ran my return strike on max delay too - first I thought the intense flak and 70+ CAP would get them all, but it seems my Vals took all the punishment up top and kept the F4Fs busy while my Kates snuck in low - I think torps did all that the damage - very Midway. Then I thought my boys were going to target only those RN CVs - nice but tough and not the Big Game. But then at last.... those magic critical hit stars appeared and good bye two 'Yorktown' class CVs, plus a burning RN(?) carrier. Thankfully Hans was too beat up to do a second strike - my CAP may have been a bit thin I suspect.

I think though that the CV game is now a shipyard race; I have (Censored) CVs and CVL in the yards being repaired to which we add another from Fiji. I should be due some new CVL soon (but probably delayed due to all those shipyard points going on the repairs). Rivet, boys rivet, before his next batch of CV arrive.

Question - if have a TF of damaged ships in a shipyard port (but in a TF still) they do not use repair points do they? Just have that 'repair at sea one point' thing? I want to maximise CV riveting of course.

S

[boba]

!

Originally posted by strawb
I ran the strikes on max delay: you would have seen a grown man with fingers crossed, willing on his flak gunners at every US air pass (what is it with this game???)

That's the part I realy like in this game. The suspence and anticipation watching carrier and surface battles. Will your bombers make through CAP and score hits? Will the longe lance torpedoes found there targets? Will your BBs make critical hits on enemy ships? IMHO that is what makes this game great

[strawb]

Hans and I have different view of VCR

He see many more hits on me than just one 100ib that damaged my Junyo. That could just be fog of war on vcr that is know feature.

HOWEVER Hans cannot see enough hits on vcr to kill his two cv and damage one other. We did a re run as follows...

(I will copy in from my email to Hans for ease)
------
My turn re-run showed:

In your attack on me
4 TBs and 15 DBs get through - they get 1x1000ib hit on a Junyo - badly damaged

My strike is 184 aircraft vs 60+(?) of your fighters
131 bombers get through
On torpedoes: I saw two 3* or more criticals and one 2* critical on two different US CVs, plus a non critical on a RN CV
On bombs: one non-critical on an RN CV, one nonm-crit on a USN

Result; one sunk us cv, one badly damaged US CV, one damaged RN CV.

So:

1. Marginal difference between two runs - except you had marginally more luck/less unlucky with second cv not sinking after attack due to damage - so why not use first run?

2. Your 19 aircraft strike damages a CV, my 131 aircraft strike kills two - seems right to me on balance.
-----
Views anyone?

[Hans-Brink]

The reason why I asked for a rerun of the turn is not a question on differences in combat reports. I can accept some inaccuracies in reports regarding damage inflicted to the enemy. Hence, Japanese and allied reports should tell different stories on the damage inflicted to the opponent, number of enemy planes involved and so on. But when it comes to OWN reports on the damage the enemy inflicts to OWN forces, it must be reasonable to expect the reports to be accurate.
Having watched the vcr and the combat reports for turn 29, I was told
1) Two IJN CVs were sunk (1 Hiryu class and 1 Junyo class)
2) Light damage to Saratoga and heavy damage to Formidable
Saratoga received 1 none critical torpedo hit.
Formidable received 1 (1*) torpedo hit

As I for some reason can’t attach screen dumps to this forum. I have typed my combat report step by step, instead.

Here goes
US carrier status before the battle
CV Hornet – Damage 0
CV Enterprise – Damage 0
CV Yorktown – Damage 0
CV Saratoga – Damage 0
CV Indomtable – Damage 1
CV Formidable – Damage 0

Allied combat report (Carrier battle at Fiji-turn 29 original)

IJN taskforce comprising 4 CVs approaches from north
Spruance launches strike, range 2 hexes

Plane - Total / Through CAP
Wildcats: - 57 / 20
Dauntless: - 51 / 40
Devastator: - 18 / 17
Albacore: - 6 / 6

Result:
CV - 1 x 1000lb bomb – (none critical) no visible damage
CV -
CV - 3x 1000lb bomb (1 none critical - 1 ** and 1 ***) + 2 torpedo hits (***** both of them)
CV - 1 x torpedo hit (*****)

Japanese counter strike:

Plane - Total / Through CAP
Zeros - 21 / 6
VALs - 36 / 1
Katess - 36 / 12

Result:

CV -
CV -
CV –
CV - 1 torpedo hit – none critical
CV – 1 torpedo hit (*)
CV -


Battle ends

Report
Soryu class CV sinks
Junyo class CV sinks

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was therefore annoyed (to put it diplomatically) when I loaded the turn and realized this:

US Carrier status
CV Hornet – sunk
CV Enterprise – damage 1
CV Yorktown – sunk
CV Saratoga – damage 10
CV Indomtable – Damage 2
CV Formidable – Damage 80

(Pretty good result, considering only 2 torpedoes hit their target.)


Checking the sunk menu, I also realised that no IJN carriers had been sunk. However I accept the possibilities for misleading information on enemy casualties as already mentioned. Also the damage to Saratoga and Formidable cannot be disputed. They were both hit.
But I REALLY need an explanation on what happened to the rest of my taskforce?????????????


Besides!
In all former turns the vcr and reports has been very accurate when compared to the actual result. And after the rerun, the same goes for this turn.


Has anyone experienced similar phenomenons?

[Capt. Harlock]

Wow -- obviously something is seriously wrong. I would suggest to Hans and Strawb that you check out the "battle reports" for the last turn. (In other words, what we used to use before the VCR option.) That should give the number of planes involved in each strike and the number of hits. Note that Strawb reports his strike as starting out with 184 aircraft, while Hans' VCR view shows only 93 aircraft coming in, to point out just one issue.

In fact, it might be useful to post the "saved game" files, and see if they have been corrupted somehow.

In answer to Strawb's question, the TF's must be disbanded and the ships in port for the base's ship repair points to be used on the ships. (Makes sense: you can do lots more in a drydock than if the workers have to take a boat ride out to the ship.)

[boba]

It's a common thing to have Allies VCR showing sometimes completly different things from what realy happened in turn. When I played Allies in PBEM I got used not to trust VCR and rely only on battle reports and Ships sunk table. In my current PBEM game my opponet (playing Allies) didn't even saw two Carrier battles (in same turn) in which he lost 4 out of 5 his CVs, so I had to descibe it to him.
In short, Japanese player may be certain that his VCR report is a real one, Allied player should get used not to trust his VCR files.

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by boba
In short, Japanese player may be certain that his VCR report is a real one, Allied player should get used not to trust his VCR files.

That’s not my experience; we have played 28 turns by now, all of them with my VCR and combat reports matching

[boba]

Originally posted by Hans-Brink
That’s not my experience; we have played 28 turns by now, all of them with my VCR and combat reports matching

In my experience difference between VCR and combat reports appears exacty in major surface and carrier engagments... I don't know why, maybe there are some variables which are calculated during VCR playback (I know that this shoudn't be the case) ?

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by boba
In my experience difference between VCR and combat reports appears exacty in major surface and carrier engagments...

We have had surface and carrier battles earlier in the game
(See Washington Post turn 22 and turn 23).
In both cases I experienced no problems. ??




I don't know why, maybe there are some variables which are calculated during VCR playback (I know that this shoudn't be the case) ?

Assuming calculations are made when watching the VCR also means, that the outcome of battles could vary, depending on how many times you have watched them. Therefore, I find it hard to believe any calculations are made in the VCR.
But then again, I haven’t any knowledge on the program code, so your guess is as good as mine,

My first assumption was, as Capt. Harlock mentions, corrupted save-files. Fortunately, I have saved all game turns since turn 14, both Strawb’s and mine. The first thing I did, was comparing the latest turn with those previously played. They all appear to have the same size, down to the last byte.
I know this isn’t a guarantee against a corrupted file, but I think the problem is elsewhere.

I think it’s either a corrupted game file, or a system configuration issue.

[boba]

Well, I think that logic behind "VCR" file should be only to show what Japanese player saw in combat phase, so there shouldn't be any variables calculated during it. But (there's always a but), as I said, I did expirienced difference between what VCR showed to Allies and what battle reports said... The only conclusion it has any sence is that some things are calculated and sometimes they match with what happened, sometimes they don't.

I know it can be very frustrating not to see what happened but it isn't any real disadvantage to Allies... I don't think it can be avoided to happen, maybe Jeremy could explain how VCR mechanisme realy works.

And I do read your reports from a game, they are very good... I just wish I had more time to write reports from my PBEM game, there were several very nice naval engagments which would be interesting to read (for instance, how USN lost 4CVs sunk and 1CV badly damaged to IJN 1CV sunk, in 3 consecutive battles around Palmyra, all in one return phase )

[Hans-Brink]

Originally posted by boba

Well, I think that logic behind "VCR" file should be only to show what Japanese player saw in combat phase, so there shouldn't be any variables calculated during it. But (there's always a but), as I said, I did expirienced difference between what VCR showed to Allies and what battle reports said... The only conclusion it has any sence is that some things are calculated and sometimes they match with what happened, sometimes they don't.

True
But (another but)
A VCR for one player only, makes very little sense to me. If “fog of war” is implemented (and so it seems) the logical thing (to me) would be a VCR containing two sequences, one for each player.
Example:
When Strawb watched the VCR on his historical first turn (see first post in this thread). His combat report told him that 5 BBs were sunk at Pearl Harbour.
When I watched the same VCR, I saw 6 BBs go down, and so I was told in my combat reports. Which by the way was the actual result.




I know it can be very frustrating not to see what happened but it isn't any real disadvantage to Allies... I don't think it can be avoided to happen, maybe Jeremy could explain how VCR mechanisme realy works.

I definitely would like to hear Jeremy’s comment on this too.
To me it’s not only frustrating, not having a reliable VCR. Watching incoming waves of Vals and Kates being shot down by wildcats, while a grown man sits on the edge of a chair, shouting “nail them….good! give the man a cigar”…… It’s a vital part of the game.



And I do read your reports from a game, they are very good... I just wish I had more time to write reports from my PBEM game,

Thanks
What’s the status in your game?



there were several very nice naval engagments which would be interesting to read (for instance, how USN lost 4CVs sunk and 1CV badly damaged to IJN 1CV sunk, in 3 consecutive battles around Palmyra, all in one return phase )

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK, that just got to hurt