S-400 impact

[Rudd]

If the reports are true...here's a CMANO graphic showing the S-400 range rings and nearby Turkish bases/orbat(from Scramble)

[Rudd]

Not to mention, half of Israel and all of Cyprus

[Dysta]

If it's true, then this deployment is also giving 'combat demonstrations' to other potential S-400 buyers, but hardly convincing if Russia still don't want to sell 40N6 munition packages. Still, convinicing enough to make China have a large company of 48N6s.

[mikmykWS]

Pinning down is a viable tactic although firing parameters are probably rigid given how much air traffic is around in general.

In game you can replicate this by creating a box the SAM will only shoot into using an AAW patrol, prosecution zones and exclusion zones.

[Gunner98]

I think the French are deploying to RAF Akrotiri on Cyprus as well. Not to mention USAF assets at Incerlik. This could be interesting

[mikmykWS]

Insurgents might fragthe thing.

This would actually make a great spec ops type mission for an ARMA type game..hehe

Mike

[Rudd]

Just found this from October 1

The Air Force is deploying about 300 airmen to Diyarbakir Air Base in Turkey to find, protect and rescue any U.S. or coalition pilots who have to eject over Iraq or Syria...They will have several HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters and HC-130s to carry out rescue operations, if needed, Gault said in an email.

from http://www.defensenews.com/story/milita ... /73098074/

Also states

If any Russian pilots get shot down, they are on their own.

"The U.S. is currently only authorized to rescue downed pilots from the coalition," said Navy Cmdr. Elissa Smith, a Defense Department spokeswoman.

[Dysta]

This is not a full-blown assault solely against ISIS only, nor typical air-strike and insurgency, but a global power struggle. Syria is again, proven to be the center of the world when numerous countries blaming each other for this.

[Sardaukar]

80% of Russian air strikes have not been against IS/ISIL/ISIS but against rebels in west Syria.

[Dysta]

That's why I said 'power struggle'.

But well, I'd hate to wish it true, but I am really curious what S-400 can do in this situation.

[VFA41_Lion]

At least now the USA/Russia will get to see how the F-22 performs in this kind of environment without actually being in direct conflict with each other.

[NakedWeasel]

ORIGINAL: Dysta

That's why I said 'power struggle'.

But well, I'd hate to wish it true, but I am really curious what S-400 can do in this situation.

It's a sitting target for cruise missile strikes including TACTOM, JASSM/JASSM-ER, Taurus, etc. It's not going to intimidate anyone, but rather, encourage the development of advanced strike weapons, and stealthy aircraft like the F-35, and UCAVs. A non-moving weapon system that can be easily spotted from space, and constantly monitored by passive sensors is simply inviting destruction; it can really only be used to defend an area. The fact it is immobile and easily located means the force deploying it has lost the initiative, and must defend the site to maintain any advantage the SAM system originally provided. Further, the (inevitable, IMO) loss of the unit due to enemy action would be seen as a massive embarrassment to Russia.

Think of a castle... a castle is a wonderful thing. It provides shelter and a base of operations. But, it is immobile, and it cannot hide. And what happened to besieged castles? They were surrounded, and assaulted until their defenses crumbled, or their supplies ran out. And then they were captured and defeated. Eventually, better weapons and tactics rendered castles obsolete.

[Sardaukar]

And, if they make mistake, they might get the good news from Israeli AF...

[Gunner98]

Think of a castle... a castle is a wonderful thing. It provides shelter and a base of operations. But, it is immobile, and it cannot hide. And what happened to besieged castles? They were surrounded, and assaulted until their defenses crumbled, or their supplies ran out. And then they were captured and defeated. Eventually, better weapons and tactics rendered castles obsolete.

Maginot Line!

[Dysta]

If offense is the best defense, then Istanbul and Washington should be in flame right at the furious time in Russia. And you sure US and Turkey won't need any defense to fend off their jets and missiles?

Soldiers might say yes, but the rest of the citizens whom are involved in this crossfire will not. They'd perfer a solid home and neighbors over a tank in a wilderness.

[Hongjian]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

80% of Russian air strikes have not been against IS/ISIL/ISIS but against rebels in west Syria.

Still, the 20% of Russian strikes managed to break the 2 years long ISIS siege on Kweires Airbase, North-East of Aleppo. which cuts a vital highway connecting Turkish border with ISIS-capital Rakka and previously used for supplies.

This is actually a bigger victory than any previous coalition strikes against ISIS managed to achieve in years long of bombardment. Remember: The Coalition didnt do anything to defend Palmyra (where the ISIS then beheaded that famed archeologist and destroyed the temples) against the ISIS onslaught, because it was guarded by the SAA and not the FSA. US drones pretty much monitored the whole massacre without intefering.

If anything, both sides have their clear agenda. But it is undisputed, that Russia, by the virtue of protecting the Assad regime, actually managed to push back ISIS considerably.

[Dysta]

I think we all get the understanding, that we cannot entirely certain which country can laugh to last.

Wait and we will see.

By the way, if Russia want to sell S-400, then why they hold back their 'best of the best' from the selling shelf? 40N6 may be unproven before and after the war, but still the range and the instanteous launching capability get the most interests to buyers. Even China knew they have something better than 'monkeized' 48N6s if they know Russia don't want to offer the best to them.

[AlmightyTallest]

If it gets deployed, I'm just drooling over the telemetry and electronic data on it's emissions we're going to get from that thing operating in a war zone.

[Dysta]

ORIGINAL: AlmightyTallest

If it gets deployed, I'm just drooling over the telemetry and electronic data on it's emissions we're going to get from that thing operating in a war zone.

Usually, SAM's radio emission can also serve as a bait for luring EWs to jam wrong part of frequency, and switch to completely different bandwidth for guiding missile-in-air. But you're right, it's still a major weakness since EW is getting smarter to instantly intercept another changing frequency.

That's why an odd-ball missile like HQ-9/FD-2000 will have an active seeker inside a warhead, to use it as an last resort when radar guidance is jammed.

[AlmightyTallest]

Oh I agree Dysta, it's always a cat and mouse game with Electronic warfare and such. That area for a SAM system is a mess of multiple nations military aircraft, commercial traffic, numerous fighting factions on the ground, it's just a pure nightmare to deal with no matter what side your on.

In regards to active seekers, that's why planes like F-18's and other's use towed decoy systems like the AN/ALE-50 and -55 systems. Always a game of one upmanship.

http://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/anale55-fiberoptic-towed-decoy

Here is a declassified photo of a Typhoon with it's deployed towed fiber optic decoy:



Photos above are from here: http://theaviationist.com/2012/04/16/towed-decoy/