New Scenario for Testing: Syrian Air Sandbox 2.1 (BETA)

[MichaelJCuozzo]

Okay, troopers, this is a Beta Sandbox scenario focusing on a battle for control of the skies over southern Turkey and northern Syria. In this version of the beta game play and flow are the most significant factors that the authors are looking for feedback on. Therefore, scoring and such are not a major factor and have not been addressed as of yet. Revisions and updates will be made to the scenario and a final polished variant will be released before Christmas.

[magi]

okidokie.....

[ojms]

Some of the Turkish radars are moving, is this what you want?

[Coiler12]

-Stuffing all the player's aircraft into Incirlik is a little detrimental to the scenario. As it stands, not only does the S-400 shoot down anything that takes off from it (especially problematic with slow standoff platforms), but it makes the whole thing a little cramped, with little for the player to do except set up the attacks and watch the dice rolls.

[MichaelJCuozzo]

That's up to the NATO player to decide how he wants to utilize the radars.

[MichaelJCuozzo]

You're right and that's one of the obstacles that the NATO player has to overcome. I could disperse the aircraft out a bit to other airfields but in reality, Incirlik is the main NATO airbase in the region. Keep in mind that there is the RAF airbase on Cyprus if you wish to maybe disperse some air assets before the shooting starts.

[AlexGGGG]

I was concerned about the lack of standoff antiship stuff for a moment, but it worked out fine in the end.

I was also concerned with S-400 taking down aircraft on takeoff, but orbiting two OECM Growlers in vicinity of the airfield made S-400 ineffective. First thing to go up was Awaxen, which I moved north, outside of SAM coverage, and then Growlers which covered the rest of take offs.

Aircraft kills were mostly on the ground by TLAMs. In the air, I had ample CAP (two groups of 6x Raptor, plus some more of the late takeoffs), so I allocated 4x AMRAAMs per target, which made kills pretty much guaranteed.

SIDE: Russia/Syria
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x A-50U Mainstay A
1x Radar (Snow Drift [9S18M1])
1x RKR Slava [Pr.1164 Atlant]
3x SA-16 Gimlet [9K310 Igla-1] MANPADS
4x SA-19 Grisom [2S6M] TELAR
3x SA-21a/b Growler TEL
1x SKR Admiral Sergey Gorshkov [Pr.2235.0]
18x Su-24M2 Fencer D
13x Su-25SM Frogfoot A
13x Su-30SM Flanker G
1x Vehicle (Cheese Board [96L6])
1x Vehicle (Grave Stone [92N2])

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F-16CM Blk 50 Falcon [Peace Onyx III CCIP Upgr]
1x F-22A Raptor

[Vici Supreme]

ORIGINAL: Mikewritesfic

You're right and that's one of the obstacles that the NATO player has to overcome. I could disperse the aircraft out a bit to other airfields but in reality, Incirlik is the main NATO airbase in the region.

You are right that Incirlik AB is one of the most important (probably the most important) USAF bases in the region. However, Incirlik serves as a logistic hub as well as a staging area for fighter and strike aircraft. AWACS do visit Incirlik now and then but usually, aircraft like the Sentry, Rivet Joint and Joint STARS would probably operate out of Souda Bay on Crete. Check Google Earth if necessary.

http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/usaf-europe

[MichaelJCuozzo]

You are right that Incirlik AB is one of the most important (probably the most important) USAF bases in the region. However, Incirlik serves as a logistic hub as well as a staging area for fighter and strike aircraft. AWACS do visit Incirlik now and then but usually, aircraft like the Sentry, Rivet Joint and Joint STARS would probably operate out of Souda Bay on Crete. Check Google Earth if necessary.

http://www.scramble.nl/orbats/usaf-europe
[/quote]

Very true. I used Incirlik mainly because that's the base I'm familiar with for the region and did TDYs up there back in the day. I'll take that into consideration about the E-2 basing when I revise. Thanks!

[MichaelJCuozzo]

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

I was concerned about the lack of standoff antiship stuff for a moment, but it worked out fine in the end.

I was also concerned with S-400 taking down aircraft on takeoff, but orbiting two OECM Growlers in vicinity of the airfield made S-400 ineffective. First thing to go up was Awaxen, which I moved north, outside of SAM coverage, and then Growlers which covered the rest of take offs.

Aircraft kills were mostly on the ground by TLAMs. In the air, I had ample CAP (two groups of 6x Raptor, plus some more of the late takeoffs), so I allocated 4x AMRAAMs per target, which made kills pretty much guaranteed.

SIDE: Russia/Syria
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x A-50U Mainstay A
1x Radar (Snow Drift [9S18M1])
1x RKR Slava [Pr.1164 Atlant]
3x SA-16 Gimlet [9K310 Igla-1] MANPADS
4x SA-19 Grisom [2S6M] TELAR
3x SA-21a/b Growler TEL
1x SKR Admiral Sergey Gorshkov [Pr.2235.0]
18x Su-24M2 Fencer D
13x Su-25SM Frogfoot A
13x Su-30SM Flanker G
1x Vehicle (Cheese Board [96L6])
1x Vehicle (Grave Stone [92N2])

SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F-16CM Blk 50 Falcon [Peace Onyx III CCIP Upgr]
1x F-22A Raptor

Nice work! Beefing up the CAP early is key and the EA-18s make all the difference in the world.

[MichaelJCuozzo]

Okay, guys. Here is an updated version of the Syrian Sandbox scenario. Changes have been made and more are planned. The polished version should be posted around Christmas Day if everything goes according to plan. [:)] Some of the changes are the inclusion of: a third NATO airbase (Souda) additional air assets at that installation, additional naval units, the beginnings of a scoring system and an in-depth commander's brief for the Blue player.

As always, feedback is welcomed. Enjoy!

[magi]

00… Thank you… I have played it three times already… The original version… And as the sandbox... the third time I did some editing and adding units... With more balanced loadouts for the specific mission at hand… I will be interested to see what you have done here… It's my favorite sandboxes scenario so far… So I am looking to this version…

[magi]

Just some initial impressions… and my opinion which isn't the most knowledgeable…

You give us more than enough stuff to work with… But a JSTAR would be nice.... And maybe a global Hawk or something like that…

I would like the scenario to have a little more time duration… So as to do some ISTAR and planning… and minimize losses…

I believe the scenario should start… With both sides having some of their basic tactical assets on station… like.. Basic CAP.. AEW.. ISR etc etc... If people don't like where they are they can move them…

I believe the Michigan should start at creep and below the layer to deep..... And possibly more in proximity of the Seawolf… As it would be able to offer and support…

The Turkish group… Group 2210… In shark infested waters… Should be at creep to no more than 18 kn ....

The Connecticut… Other than to be useful for strike mission is pretty far from the action… as it is now it would take five hours at cruise speed to be off the Latakia area....

Oh.... You gave us MALD.... Thank you very much.....

Your briefing is totally lovely… Thank you very much… i'm going to start now…

[magi]

amazing how much happens in an hour of game time.... with your current scoring i achieved major victory at this time... i am now preparing to totally destroy them...

i started the fight before i wanted.... there were so many aircraft in a compressed battle space... i feared there would be an event and then i would be reacting.... red had violated turk airspace often.... so i squeezed the trigger before i wanted to...

once you take out the snow drift.... its pretty much over for them.... then you start plunking away....

i lost the Turkish surface action group.... i thought they were going to be ok... the f/a 18's were on the way... amazing how many bullets the dogged.... but the slava and the gorshkov turned their aaw missiles on them and that screwed the party up perty good.... i will remember that and play a little different next time.....

while you give blue more than he needs to prosecute the scenario well.... its fun to be able to try different approaches and adds a lot of replay value....

SIDE: Red
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
7x Su-30SM Flanker G
4x Su-24M2 Fencer D
1x A-50U Mainstay A
1x Radar (Snow Drift [9S18M1])


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
1x AA-12 Adder A [R-77, RVV-AE]
12x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
23x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
76x FAB-100M-62 GPB
29x SA-N-21c Growler [9M96]
16x SS-N-26 Sapless [P-800 Onyx]
10x SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 1 [P-500 Bazalt]
11x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
24x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
2x 130mm/54 A-192 Frag
2x 30mm Twin Gatling Gsh-6-30KD [375 rnds]
4x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3]



SIDE: Blue
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F-22A Raptor
1x F-16CM Blk 50 Falcon [Peace Onyx III CCIP Upgr]
1x F 495 Gediz [Perry]
1x F 246 Salihreis [Meko 200TN Track IIB]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2x AN/SSQ-53E DIFAR
8x ADM-160C MALD-J [Stand-In OECM]
12x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
28x AIM-120B AMRAAM
8x AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM P3I.3
10x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
15x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
8x AGM-88B HARM
5x AIM-9X Sidewinder
4x Generic Chaff Salvo [8x Cartridges]
1x Ariel Mk2 FOTRD
4x RGM-84G Harpoon ICR
8x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
2x AGM-88C HARM
28x RIM-162B ESSM
1x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
3x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
4x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 1 Burst [300 rnds]
4x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
1x AN/ALE-50
2x 127mm/54 HE-CVT [HiFrag]
1x RIM-66E6 SM-1MR Blk VIB
2x 25mm Sea Zenith Burst [20 rnds]

[magi]

here is what it looks like for me right now....

[magi]

how do you delete a post....?

[magi]

ok

[MichaelJCuozzo]

ORIGINAL: magi

Just some initial impressions… and my opinion which isn't the most knowledgeable…

You give us more than enough stuff to work with… But a JSTAR would be nice.... And maybe a global Hawk or something like that…

I would like the scenario to have a little more time duration… So as to do some ISTAR and planning… and minimize losses…

I believe the scenario should start… With both sides having some of their basic tactical assets on station… like.. Basic CAP.. AEW.. ISR etc etc... If people don't like where they are they can move them…

I believe the Michigan should start at creep and below the layer to deep..... And possibly more in proximity of the Seawolf… As it would be able to offer and support…

The Turkish group… Group 2210… In shark infested waters… Should be at creep to no more than 18 kn ....

The Connecticut… Other than to be useful for strike mission is pretty far from the action… as it is now it would take five hours at cruise speed to be off the Latakia area....

Oh.... You gave us MALD.... Thank you very much.....

Your briefing is totally lovely… Thank you very much… i'm going to start now…

Glad you liked the briefing. I enjoyed putting it together.

Connecticut was there because I was toying with the idea of putting a Russian SSN in the area to screen Slava and her escort. I pulled it though, but left Connecticut there. Not sure what I'm going to do with her just yet.

MALD's are fantastic. I love them.

I had a JSTAR in the first scenario, might bring it back.

Yeah, the Turkish surface group needs some revamping. Going to ponder that.

Michigan.....may not make the cut. As much as I love having her there with 154 Tomahawks, I think cutting her ot will make the scenario more challenging.

The reason I didn't put more time in before hostilities break out is because I want the Blue player to go from a standing start more or less. It's more of a challenge and forces him/her to think on the move

[MichaelJCuozzo]

ORIGINAL: magi

how do you delete a post....?

I love that pic. Looks good

[MichaelJCuozzo]

ORIGINAL: magi

amazing how much happens in an hour of game time.... with your current scoring i achieved major victory at this time... i am now preparing to totally destroy them...

i started the fight before i wanted.... there were so many aircraft in a compressed battle space... i feared there would be an event and then i would be reacting.... red had violated turk airspace often.... so i squeezed the trigger before i wanted to...

once you take out the snow drift.... its pretty much over for them.... then you start plunking away....

i lost the Turkish surface action group.... i thought they were going to be ok... the f/a 18's were on the way... amazing how many bullets the dogged.... but the slava and the gorshkov turned their aaw missiles on them and that screwed the party up perty good.... i will remember that and play a little different next time.....

while you give blue more than he needs to prosecute the scenario well.... its fun to be able to try different approaches and adds a lot of replay value....

SIDE: Red
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
7x Su-30SM Flanker G
4x Su-24M2 Fencer D
1x A-50U Mainstay A
1x Radar (Snow Drift [9S18M1])


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
1x AA-12 Adder A [R-77, RVV-AE]
12x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
23x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
76x FAB-100M-62 GPB
29x SA-N-21c Growler [9M96]
16x SS-N-26 Sapless [P-800 Onyx]
10x SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 1 [P-500 Bazalt]
11x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
24x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
2x 130mm/54 A-192 Frag
2x 30mm Twin Gatling Gsh-6-30KD [375 rnds]
4x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3]



SIDE: Blue
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F-22A Raptor
1x F-16CM Blk 50 Falcon [Peace Onyx III CCIP Upgr]
1x F 495 Gediz [Perry]
1x F 246 Salihreis [Meko 200TN Track IIB]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2x AN/SSQ-53E DIFAR
8x ADM-160C MALD-J [Stand-In OECM]
12x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
28x AIM-120B AMRAAM
8x AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM P3I.3
10x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
15x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
8x AGM-88B HARM
5x AIM-9X Sidewinder
4x Generic Chaff Salvo [8x Cartridges]
1x Ariel Mk2 FOTRD
4x RGM-84G Harpoon ICR
8x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
2x AGM-88C HARM
28x RIM-162B ESSM
1x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
3x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
4x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 1 Burst [300 rnds]
4x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
1x AN/ALE-50
2x 127mm/54 HE-CVT [HiFrag]
1x RIM-66E6 SM-1MR Blk VIB
2x 25mm Sea Zenith Burst [20 rnds]

Yeah, Blue has more than enough to successfully reach his objectives. Maybe too much. I'm toying with some ideas to make the scenario more difficult but not taking away from the realism.