So close and yet...

[budd]

thanks for the shots. Looks like i'm screwed then. I'm in mid turn July 24th about 765,000 Soviets casualties. I got a 27 division Lvov pocket but took to long to clear it. I have Minsk and Riga and Lvov. I'm halfway to Narva with 4th PG, 16th army is at Dunaburg working towards Pskov. The center has been the toughest for me in my 2 games. admittedly i screwed up the FSB and refit timings. I pushed 2ndPG to Gomel and then too Orsha, took it as it was open. It got cut off and i lost 10th and 18th panzer when the AI pounced and surrounded 2ndPG in 3 separate pockets.2ndPG got pushed all the way back to Gomel. Orsha was just too tempting[:)]. AGS after clearing Lvov is 4 hexes from Kiev and down too 66% strength. I'm kinda 50/50 on starting over. Kinda like to see if i can pull my fat out of the fire, My logistics are improving but it may be too late.
Here's a gif of my opening turns. The 2nd PG disaster is after this, you can see the AI start to surround 2ndPG at Orsha.

[budd]

question- can you get away with leaving a space between units when you pocket? I've occupying every hex when i pocket.

[Flaviusx]

The AI does love to push armies straight through the Pripyet. There's no easy answer for that, I didn't send any mobile troops in the swamps, but getting the infantry to plug that gap takes a while. By the time I got 4th army to cover it, the Sovs were halfway through the swamps.

Personally, I halted and consolidated just east of Minsk, at which point I moved the FSB forward. But I got stuck hard in the center for the rest of the game. Most of what's left of the Red Army is in the middle putting Moscow beyond reach.

Center is hard. Soviets just get a ton of stuff there. I don't think it is possible to pull off taking Smolensk by mid July as was historical. You'd have to skip moving the FSB forward to do this...yuck.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

question- can you get away with leaving a space between units when you pocket? I've occupying every hex when i pocket.

It's chancy. If they activate at all, they can move a single hex which may or may not cause problems. Then again, they might not activate period.

[budd]

I had a brief vision of a pocket closing at Orsha, yea it was a pipe dream. First game i stalled out in front of Minsk mid July, bad logistics and and the red wall went up. I think i'll play on for now. I have 3rd PG coming out of a refit and there a chance to push at Polotsk, loop around to Smolensk. It going to have to wait as i have to move 2 FSB and some airfields and refit everyone else.I'll keep pushing the infantry.

[battlevonwar]

Interesting, I have the hardest time with Army Group Center as well. I also feel that Moscow is the king of achievements. You never have enough fuel, or space to maneuver ... You can ignore the Marshes but this ties up reinforcements. Army Group South can meet up with Army Group Center near Gomel and attempt to cut off the Pripyet Marshes. That or you can attempt to go North and link with AGN. Either way you have to give ground somewhere (if you keep Hitler in your pocket you are much better off in taking Moscow) My Minsk FSB always cuts off my attack and I run dry of fuel earlier and lose Panzer focus

P.S. Good kill total on the Russians..high tax on the Germans(365 Divisions, 16 HQs wow)

[budd]

I always get caught in between, pushing and pocketing. Think if i restart i'm going to try to focus on causing as many Soviet casualties as i can and clearing my rails. Have to move the FSB's up quick or you'll run into the 10 hex truck limit.

[Remmes]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
Center is hard. Soviets just get a ton of stuff there. I don't think it is possible to pull off taking Smolensk by mid July as was historical.

Restarted the game many times because I couldn't get to Smolensk within a reasonable timeframe. Thought it was due to my amateurism, so for me it's good to hear that real East Front adepts have the same experience. Hurling the Panzergruppen forward slicing through the Soviets gets you pretty far but in the end there is always something (fuel/mud) that sputters the advance. And as soon as you halt your advance the red wall appears......

[Flaviusx]

It isn't necessary to beat the clock on Smolensk to win the game imo. There's a ton of things I could've done better here, but you've got to be flexible and not be too tied to what happened historically.

Against the AI at least you probably have to expect the wall and work around it. (Against a human Soviet, not necessarily the case btw. I have different ideas on what to do in the center than the AI.) In PBEM games Smolensk may be doable within the time frame depending on what your opponent has in mind.