One thing I love about this game is the need to plan, and I find it helps to plan if you work towards a decisive impulse. For example, as the United States Navy nears Japan, the Japan player could start to think about what needs to be in place to hit back when the USN arrives in home waters. Where must the planes be based, is the counter attack a naval, air or combined? Depending on the impulse type chosen, is there enough ships and planes to win?
I find imagining a decisive impulse makes you do some hard math. In the case above, I quickly realized a few things: Japan could cover the home seas with enough 4+ range fighters using an air impulse, but did not have enough Nav to do any real damage. Responding to a USN intrusion into home waters with a combined left me with another problem: I had too few fighters now. I also realized I needed a supply counter on the mainland, as I would probably be based in China with the fleet and supply could be cut). The solution was to change plans. Knowing I could not decisively win, I pulled back long range fighters from the periphery earlier than planned (they could react in to a decisive battle). It meant a weakened periphery, but any delay in the USA's ability to control my home waters and secure bases was worth it.
Another example of a decisive impulse would be a taking Gibraltar. Can you cut supply? what would you need to cut supply? What units do you need? Do you have time to get them in place? Do you need an O Chit to crack the rock?
You can also force the creation of decisive impulses on your opponent by creating unsolvable dilemmas. An Axis fleet in Gibraltar is a good example. Either the UK moves first to protect the convoys, or the subs open up. But if the UK moves first, then the axis fleet will hit any weak point. You can triple the jeopardy here with a sizeable air force in the Bay of Biscay, and a few amphibs. The allies will have to protect convoys, be ready for a sortie by the axis battle fleet, and prevent invasions of the Azores, Ireland or even a raid on the UK itself. To make the most of this situation, the axis needs to plan for its strike. If the allied fail to protect the shipping lanes, are you ready? If you have a chance for the azores, are the marines and amphibs in place?
The classic decisive impulse is of course D-Day. Once again, imagining what that single impulse will look like helps me clarify my needs so I can build and preposition correctly.
anyhow, if you are finding your aspirations are not matching results, this may be an effective technique to help.
Planning for a decisive impulse.
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
Whenever there is Naval Battle involved, you cannot have a decisive impulse.
Plan on it, and see the dice laughing at your face when you roll above whatever is required to find the enemy.
Besides - never rely too much on Land Based planes; once aborted they're aborted for good. CVP remain on the carriers and if the carriers remain at sea undamaged they keep fighting.
A very important factor I've learnt at my own expence when my IJN found their assisting land based planes grounded back into the islands - sensibly weakning the air factors in the sea.
If you plan for something which is land based - the planning itself is usually "simple" - as per you need your assets in the right positions for.
Usually the problem is that you have always some clock ticking somewhere - be it based on turns lapsing, impulses going and getting to bad weather; or simply the chance for the enemy to cover that gap you spotted or reinforce more the sector you plan to attack.
All I can say is that for a D-Day you need OChits.
Eventually you want a preliminary Air Action to start pin down enemy forces and disrupt them and spend their fighters.
The next impulse you take the SuperCombineds.
You want to bomb at once all the reaction forces of the Germans, and pin them.
You want to Paradrop troops to shield with them (and eventually sacrifice them) the landing zones.
You want to move ships out (without taking a naval impulse first to "telegraph" to the Axis in which sea zone you're to land) and land at once.
And you want good reorganizing for your planes too.
But to prepare is not that hard. This is a game of mass - pack your planes in England, have your 4 moving AMPH in Plymouth and the 5 moving scattered around.
Ensure to have presence in both seas (if you play with that rule) ; and ensure to have also some sacrificial TRS to not be in the 0 box (Spanish / Netherland ones for example) to keep the landing forces in supply in case the Axis retaliate via Naval Air stuff.
Be sure to have your TRS and such with the 2nd and 3rd waves (which usually land via HQ if you don't seize a port in the invasion round) in low boxes so you can air cover them with reaction if needs to be.
It's not hard - is flat logic really.
And a good amount of luck. Nothing is a killer as bad rolls in crucial moments. (Will never forget in my learning games - in a Barbarossa scenario - when Germany attacks Lodz in the surprise impulse and rolls 2. You don't just miss the attack, you have lots of units disorganized, and units disorganized in hexes you need to push the attack on. Sure you can spend a HQ to reorganize some units, but then you have your HQ pinned down in Poland the first impulse. Game over pratically).
Plan on it, and see the dice laughing at your face when you roll above whatever is required to find the enemy.
Besides - never rely too much on Land Based planes; once aborted they're aborted for good. CVP remain on the carriers and if the carriers remain at sea undamaged they keep fighting.
A very important factor I've learnt at my own expence when my IJN found their assisting land based planes grounded back into the islands - sensibly weakning the air factors in the sea.
If you plan for something which is land based - the planning itself is usually "simple" - as per you need your assets in the right positions for.
Usually the problem is that you have always some clock ticking somewhere - be it based on turns lapsing, impulses going and getting to bad weather; or simply the chance for the enemy to cover that gap you spotted or reinforce more the sector you plan to attack.
All I can say is that for a D-Day you need OChits.
Eventually you want a preliminary Air Action to start pin down enemy forces and disrupt them and spend their fighters.
The next impulse you take the SuperCombineds.
You want to bomb at once all the reaction forces of the Germans, and pin them.
You want to Paradrop troops to shield with them (and eventually sacrifice them) the landing zones.
You want to move ships out (without taking a naval impulse first to "telegraph" to the Axis in which sea zone you're to land) and land at once.
And you want good reorganizing for your planes too.
But to prepare is not that hard. This is a game of mass - pack your planes in England, have your 4 moving AMPH in Plymouth and the 5 moving scattered around.
Ensure to have presence in both seas (if you play with that rule) ; and ensure to have also some sacrificial TRS to not be in the 0 box (Spanish / Netherland ones for example) to keep the landing forces in supply in case the Axis retaliate via Naval Air stuff.
Be sure to have your TRS and such with the 2nd and 3rd waves (which usually land via HQ if you don't seize a port in the invasion round) in low boxes so you can air cover them with reaction if needs to be.
It's not hard - is flat logic really.
And a good amount of luck. Nothing is a killer as bad rolls in crucial moments. (Will never forget in my learning games - in a Barbarossa scenario - when Germany attacks Lodz in the surprise impulse and rolls 2. You don't just miss the attack, you have lots of units disorganized, and units disorganized in hexes you need to push the attack on. Sure you can spend a HQ to reorganize some units, but then you have your HQ pinned down in Poland the first impulse. Game over pratically).
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
Yes, I certainly agree about not being able to get what you want from a naval impulse because of the dice, still if you do not set up for a chance at getting what you want, then you are guaranteed to be hammered. and yes, I have had the wonderful Lodz roll of death too. Poland, does not fall in time, France gets much harder, losses rise, you have to blow both offensive chits, Barbarossa is weakened badly... it gets to be very annoying.I think your notes on D-Day were very revealing. While you say it did not require much planning you did in fact plan very well. An inexperienced player may easily have missed the placement of different speed amphibs in different places, or may have even not seen the importance of amphibs at all. Your use of air impulse first, could have also been missed by a novice. I also agree with your notes on land-based air, which is is why you can't rely on it for the home defence, and again illustrates the value of imagining a decisive point that's coming in a year or more well in advance.
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paulderynck
- Posts: 8520
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:27 pm
- Location: Canada
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
The biggest advantage the western Allies have - especially over Japan - is the ability to combine actions among cooperating powers.
A better D-Day can be the CW providing the lift and the US landing with a Land O-chit. Repeat the same the next impulse in reverse. This is also why I like to preserve the French CAs and as many of their CPs as possible (by starting them in the South Pacific). A strong FF navy is invaluable in allowing the CW to undertake limited counter offensives early rather than constantly reacting to submarine threats. I don't build Free French factories (maybe one if they are lucky enough to get Senegal instead of Vichy getting it), but I do lend them BPs to build TRS, Amph, ATRs and pilots. That's a lot of free mission limits the US and CW don't need to worry about in the late war.
A better D-Day can be the CW providing the lift and the US landing with a Land O-chit. Repeat the same the next impulse in reverse. This is also why I like to preserve the French CAs and as many of their CPs as possible (by starting them in the South Pacific). A strong FF navy is invaluable in allowing the CW to undertake limited counter offensives early rather than constantly reacting to submarine threats. I don't build Free French factories (maybe one if they are lucky enough to get Senegal instead of Vichy getting it), but I do lend them BPs to build TRS, Amph, ATRs and pilots. That's a lot of free mission limits the US and CW don't need to worry about in the late war.
Paul
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
My Free French do not cooperate with US though (but France surrenders in my games usually to keep the entirety of their fleet).
Nor they have ATP or TRS in their force pool - besides the one they can possibly retain from the fall of France.
Nor they have ATP or TRS in their force pool - besides the one they can possibly retain from the fall of France.
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
In WW II there were two type of admirals: lucky ones and unlucky ones. That's also true in MWIF...
The naval system is the "casino" in the game. You can (and should) prepare to minimize the chance of a disaster, but you can never completely prevent one from happening...
An example out of bitter personal experience. Take the Bismarck Sea, somewhere in 1943. The US (that's me) did take Truk and put a nice FTR and NAV in there and four big Essex CV's, equipped with planes, escorted by fast BB's, cruisers and a nice invasion force enter the 3 box. Slower BB's enter the two box.
Than: a weather roll: storms in the sea area appear (10% chance of that happening). My opponent decide to try to delay the US advance and throws the kitchen sink at me (he pulls ships out of everywhere in the two, three and four boxes). He than searches to find me. He rolls a 1... I roll a 9 (!).
The Yamato & co. appear out of the storms and start using 9 surprise points to pick targets. Guess what: he kills a loaded TRS with a Marine on it and 2 big Essex CV's.
You can do anything you like on the high seas, but you can't do anything about this if it happens. On land, you can, by simply having loss takers participating in an attack...
The naval system is the "casino" in the game. You can (and should) prepare to minimize the chance of a disaster, but you can never completely prevent one from happening...
An example out of bitter personal experience. Take the Bismarck Sea, somewhere in 1943. The US (that's me) did take Truk and put a nice FTR and NAV in there and four big Essex CV's, equipped with planes, escorted by fast BB's, cruisers and a nice invasion force enter the 3 box. Slower BB's enter the two box.
Than: a weather roll: storms in the sea area appear (10% chance of that happening). My opponent decide to try to delay the US advance and throws the kitchen sink at me (he pulls ships out of everywhere in the two, three and four boxes). He than searches to find me. He rolls a 1... I roll a 9 (!).
The Yamato & co. appear out of the storms and start using 9 surprise points to pick targets. Guess what: he kills a loaded TRS with a Marine on it and 2 big Essex CV's.
You can do anything you like on the high seas, but you can't do anything about this if it happens. On land, you can, by simply having loss takers participating in an attack...
Peter
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paulderynck
- Posts: 8520
- Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:27 pm
- Location: Canada
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
ATRs via lend lease from USA. TRS and Amph from later year force pool additions.ORIGINAL: Cohen
My Free French do not cooperate with US though (but France surrenders in my games usually to keep the entirety of their fleet).
Nor they have ATP or TRS in their force pool - besides the one they can possibly retain from the fall of France.
Paul
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
ORIGINAL: Cohen
Whenever there is Naval Battle involved, you cannot have a decisive impulse.
Plan on it, and see the dice laughing at your face when you roll above whatever is required to find the enemy.
Besides - never rely too much on Land Based planes; once aborted they're aborted for good. CVP remain on the carriers and if the carriers remain at sea undamaged they keep fighting.
A very important factor I've learnt at my own expence when my IJN found their assisting land based planes grounded back into the islands - sensibly weakning the air factors in the sea.
If you plan for something which is land based - the planning itself is usually "simple" - as per you need your assets in the right positions for.
Usually the problem is that you have always some clock ticking somewhere - be it based on turns lapsing, impulses going and getting to bad weather; or simply the chance for the enemy to cover that gap you spotted or reinforce more the sector you plan to attack.
All I can say is that for a D-Day you need OChits.
Eventually you want a preliminary Air Action to start pin down enemy forces and disrupt them and spend their fighters.
The next impulse you take the SuperCombineds.
You want to bomb at once all the reaction forces of the Germans, and pin them.
You want to Paradrop troops to shield with them (and eventually sacrifice them) the landing zones.
You want to move ships out (without taking a naval impulse first to "telegraph" to the Axis in which sea zone you're to land) and land at once.
And you want good reorganizing for your planes too.
But to prepare is not that hard. This is a game of mass - pack your planes in England, have your 4 moving AMPH in Plymouth and the 5 moving scattered around.
Ensure to have presence in both seas (if you play with that rule) ; and ensure to have also some sacrificial TRS to not be in the 0 box (Spanish / Netherland ones for example) to keep the landing forces in supply in case the Axis retaliate via Naval Air stuff.
Be sure to have your TRS and such with the 2nd and 3rd waves (which usually land via HQ if you don't seize a port in the invasion round) in low boxes so you can air cover them with reaction if needs to be.
It's not hard - is flat logic really.
And a good amount of luck. Nothing is a killer as bad rolls in crucial moments. (Will never forget in my learning games - in a Barbarossa scenario - when Germany attacks Lodz in the surprise impulse and rolls 2. You don't just miss the attack, you have lots of units disorganized, and units disorganized in hexes you need to push the attack on. Sure you can spend a HQ to reorganize some units, but then you have your HQ pinned down in Poland the first impulse. Game over pratically).
I have to laugh at your not hard comment.
You have to build all this stuff, move it to the right place, fight to make sure you have control of the sea. (Perhaps having run a strat bombing campaign in order to attrition the axis air force.) Make sure all those ATRs are stacked with PARAs, have sufficient INF class units matched with the Amphs, and so much more!
For a newbie that's not so easy!
I happen to love this part of the game!
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
In general I deem these things learnable quickly as are pretty basic.
You do the mistake once and you realize you've done the mistake. There are indeed small details but once you burn yourself you learn.
In the not too relevant invasion of Greece once - thinking that it was Med weather so good - I've sent 3 moving infantries, which with rain disrupt by moving in mountain.
Done once, I learnt that I need 4 movement INFs to invade Greece.
Same goes for the invasions, it's a matter of practice.
Everyone starts as a newbye and there is no better way of learning than to play and bleed your nose against walls.
Also to talk with your opponent a lot - even if it is playing against yourself - helps a lot. When both players are learning it helps both refining their gameplay and reasoning with the rules.
I can assure you all of what of above said of D-Day is something I've experienced (playing Axis).
My opponent had no OChit with UK and struggled with that.
Once he moved out in the 3-4 box to land and also with other waves, and got swarmed by Axis planes which bested the scarce (5 air factor top) carrier air cover and lost a ton of units.
In another game he landed, but in Portugal; again his carriers revealed insufficient to provide enough air cover ontop of what he could base in 1-2 hexes of landing. He got thrown back into sea.
Next he tried in range of England for bombers and rebased in FTRs but did not pinned the reserves, and got thrown into sea again.
Another time he had to meet much thicker resistance because he did not used O-Chit, and took Naval impulses to move out first. And Germany simply shifted assets to the beaches of that zone. (It could have been a smart move though if you can end the turn at once and start the next after you rebase to land in the other - less manned - sea zone shores).
There are things which you can get to - but via practice.
For example - with some thinking - one could also add you could want some TRS free in the sea for their reorganization power. But again how long is the "shopping list" needed for a D-Day?
You do the mistake once and you realize you've done the mistake. There are indeed small details but once you burn yourself you learn.
In the not too relevant invasion of Greece once - thinking that it was Med weather so good - I've sent 3 moving infantries, which with rain disrupt by moving in mountain.
Done once, I learnt that I need 4 movement INFs to invade Greece.
Same goes for the invasions, it's a matter of practice.
Everyone starts as a newbye and there is no better way of learning than to play and bleed your nose against walls.
Also to talk with your opponent a lot - even if it is playing against yourself - helps a lot. When both players are learning it helps both refining their gameplay and reasoning with the rules.
I can assure you all of what of above said of D-Day is something I've experienced (playing Axis).
My opponent had no OChit with UK and struggled with that.
Once he moved out in the 3-4 box to land and also with other waves, and got swarmed by Axis planes which bested the scarce (5 air factor top) carrier air cover and lost a ton of units.
In another game he landed, but in Portugal; again his carriers revealed insufficient to provide enough air cover ontop of what he could base in 1-2 hexes of landing. He got thrown back into sea.
Next he tried in range of England for bombers and rebased in FTRs but did not pinned the reserves, and got thrown into sea again.
Another time he had to meet much thicker resistance because he did not used O-Chit, and took Naval impulses to move out first. And Germany simply shifted assets to the beaches of that zone. (It could have been a smart move though if you can end the turn at once and start the next after you rebase to land in the other - less manned - sea zone shores).
There are things which you can get to - but via practice.
For example - with some thinking - one could also add you could want some TRS free in the sea for their reorganization power. But again how long is the "shopping list" needed for a D-Day?
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Jagdtiger14
- Posts: 1685
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:58 pm
- Location: Miami Beach
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
Concerning Poland/Lodz disaster...another good reason not to put all your eggs in the Fall Weis basket.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14
Concerning Poland/Lodz disaster...another good reason not to put all your eggs in the Fall Weis basket.
Agreed. What that's concerned I like WiF a lot. Nothing is a certainty, not even the conquest of Poland in the first turn...
Peter
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brian brian
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:39 pm
RE: Planning for a decisive impulse.
Decisive Impluse = Super-Combined (i.e. Offensive Chit)