Public Beta 1.02 updated to subversion G

[Remmes]

A couple of single attacks with 14 Mot. on 33 Inf. with hq 2 hexes away.

Turn 1 : no retreat
Turn 2 : no retreat
Turn 3 : no retreat
Turn 4 : no retreat
Turn 5 : no retreat
Turn 6 : no retreat
Turn 7 : no retreat
Turn 8 : retreat
Turn 9 : no retreat
Turn 10 : no retreat

When the hq is moved one hex closer it forces no retreats from the Soviets in 10 tries. No noticeable hq bonus in this case.

[Vic]

Hi,

There are a lot of factors in play concerning combat.

Whats the ammount of AP the 14th Mot has left when making its attack?

Best wishes,
Vic

[Flaviusx]

I recreated this combat and it doesn't work for me either, mostly I think because of lack of APs. The motorized division has to do a lot of marching to get there. And the Soviet division is fresh and untouched.

You can go one to one with those in the open...but only if your division is also fresh. It takes most of your APs to push it back. So a single German infantry division starting next to a Soviet in the open one can do the job, but will be unable to do more than that. Any marching will nix the attack. (Partial exception here: Soviet tank divisions. Those things are fragile and can be slapped around with impunity.)

All this being said, the first turn somehow feels harder in this beta. Can't do as much for some reason. Maybe it is just my imagination. Could you check and make sure the shock penalty is being applied correctly on the Sovs?

[Remmes]

ORIGINAL: Vic

Hi,

There are a lot of factors in play concerning combat.

Whats the ammount of AP the 14th Mot has left when making its attack?

Best wishes,
Vic

14 Mot. has 70 Ap's left when starting its attack. This is the first turn from the campaign and i restarted it 10 times to see the outcome. To me it feels like the Germans have lost some of their punch in the latest build.

[Remmes]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

So a single German infantry division starting next to a Soviet in the open one can do the job, but will be unable to do more than that.

My second test supports your thesis. I tried 10 single attacks with 17 Inf. on 113 Inf. The 17th starts right next to the 113th and is much more succesful in its single attacks.

Turn 1 : retreat
Turn 2 : no retreat
Turn 3 : retreat
Turn 4 : no retreat
Turn 5 : retreat
Turn 6 : retreat
Turn 7 : retreat
Turn 8 : retreat
Turn 9 : retreat
Turn 10 :retreat

Maybe the Germans are bleeding too many ap's for movement in the first turn? The 14th in the first example is a motorized div. and the terrain is not too harsh.

[Vic]

There is quite a different with attacking with 140AP, 100AP or 70AP.

Especially because the first 2 combat rounds will not be very usefull for the attacker.

Best wishes,
Vic

[budd]

maybe thats why i'm not advancing far, i hardly ever do 1:1 attacks, I'm always worried about the AP penalty if i fail.

Why do i get decisions to move my FSB and airfields backwards?

Just for fun how about a report sheet with all the dates when the towns and cities were taken historically, just so we can compare. I don't remember the dates and don't want to dig out my books.is there a single internet source with a list of the dates the germans captured so and so.

[Zort]

Two things I have noticed as playing the Germans(among the many other comments so far), 1. The Sovs will mount a major drive with inf thru the Pripyat Marches, seems supply doesn't matter much. 2. The Sovs don't seem to have the "panic" feeling that I see in most games of this campaign. The Germans run out of gas at Minsk and the sovs set up at the river.

Couple of things I would like to be able to do, 1. Transfer German inf divisions between armies. 2. The German Army Group boundaries make it easy for the sovs to play the game mechanic of not worrying about the germans crossing that boundary line. I.E. in the marshes there are lots of inf in AGC that could be used to counter the sov drive thru the marshes but with a loss of many pp's. Or let the german reinforcement army be assigned to AGS also. Wonder if there was a way to make the marshes boundary more flexible, or make the marshes, unless on a road/rr line, zero supply so it is basically an unplayable area.

[ryan1488]

ORIGINAL: Zort

Two things I have noticed as playing the Germans(among the many other comments so far), 1. The Sovs will mount a major drive with inf thru the Pripyat Marches, seems supply doesn't matter much. 2. The Sovs don't seem to have the "panic" feeling that I see in most games of this campaign. The Germans run out of gas at Minsk and the sovs set up at the river.

Couple of things I would like to be able to do, 1. Transfer German inf divisions between armies. 2. The German Army Group boundaries make it easy for the sovs to play the game mechanic of not worrying about the germans crossing that boundary line. I.E. in the marshes there are lots of inf in AGC that could be used to counter the sov drive thru the marshes but with a loss of many pp's. Or let the german reinforcement army be assigned to AGS also. Wonder if there was a way to make the marshes boundary more flexible, or make the marshes, unless on a road/rr line, zero supply so it is basically an unplayable area.

this absolutely drives me insane! the soviets conveniently plop an army along a theatre border in the swamps, i eat up half the game trying to root them out without incurring any pp loss.

[mannerheim4]

ORIGINAL: Zort

Two things I have noticed as playing the Germans(among the many other comments so far), 1. The Sovs will mount a major drive with inf thru the Pripyat Marches, seems supply doesn't matter much. 2. The Sovs don't seem to have the "panic" feeling that I see in most games of this campaign. The Germans run out of gas at Minsk and the sovs set up at the river.

Couple of things I would like to be able to do, 1. Transfer German inf divisions between armies. 2. The German Army Group boundaries make it easy for the sovs to play the game mechanic of not worrying about the germans crossing that boundary line. I.E. in the marshes there are lots of inf in AGC that could be used to counter the sov drive thru the marshes but with a loss of many pp's. Or let the german reinforcement army be assigned to AGS also. Wonder if there was a way to make the marshes boundary more flexible, or make the marshes, unless on a road/rr line, zero supply so it is basically an unplayable area.

Lots of good comments.

I agree with the Soviets too strong in the Pripyat Marshes. I suppose they must eat the alligators there, because I can surround a unit for quite awhile and it still remains difficult to kill off. The "panic" feeling is lacking because very few units do more than retreat unless surrounded with no retreat avenues. I am surprised that you cannot transfer divisions, this was quite common and was often the cause of friction between the Panzer leaders and the Infantry (think Guderian vs Kluge). That would have been a good opportunity for a 'decision' to be made.

[GBS]

As I restart, the game reads version 1.02 but NONE of the stated on map changes have taken place. Im going back before I screw something up.

[GBS]

Once I stared a new game, all the changes are present. They didn't appear on my save game.

[zakblood]

correct, it has to be from a fresh game for new items to be loaded / used

[Riso]

Grossdeustchland to Groosdeutschland

Grossdeutschland

hamplemann to Hamplemann

Hampelmann

[Speedysteve]

I'm still on 1.01 but I've noticed a couple of small on counter typo's:

German 60th Mtr Div is listed as '60Inf' on counter rather than '60Mtr'.

3rd Italian Cavalry Div is listed as '3Mtr' rather than '3Cav'

[Franciscus]

Hi

Not sure if specific of 1.02 or not, but there is a small text glitch in the "Daily Log Game":






I am having a blast with this game, although not sure yet if battle results with 1.02 are more difficult now for germans or not (1.1 they seem to be more difficult...)

But I have a sugestion: The Aide de Camp report could be a bit more useful: for example re the cards: I always seem to not notice when the 2nd Armt "card" appears to deploy it's HQ, I do not remember ever seeing any warning or message. It should be on the Aide de Camp report, IMHO. Also when the siege artillery arrives at a destination, a message could maybe appear on the Aide de Camp report.

Regards

[barkhorn45]

I have noticed a reduction of 1-1 retreats also,this is on the first turn with the unit's not having moved.The german's don't have enough inf to mount all 2-1 attacks.
This and the lack of corp hq's(having all those div.under an army command is fine for the soviet's but the german's?)has finally caused me to shelve this game.Back to witw.

[Vic]

@Frans,
Thanks for spotting that one.

best,
Vic

[Franciscus]

Hi

Another instance of superimposed tooltip, now in the unit report window:

[WingedIncubus]

ORIGINAL: barkhorn45

I have noticed a reduction of 1-1 retreats also,this is on the first turn with the unit's not having moved.The german's don't have enough inf to mount all 2-1 attacks.
This and the lack of corp hq's(having all those div.under an army command is fine for the soviet's but the german's?)has finally caused me to shelve this game.Back to witw.

Get off your high horse, man. 1.02 is a public beta, I am sure German attack strength on T1 will be examined first thing after the holiday is over. Besides, I am not entirely sure attacks at equal ratio should always be a pushover for Germany, even on T1.

As for Corps HQs for Germany, given the already small number of Divisions under even the biggest Axis Army HQ what would be the benefit of having them? That's simply nitpicking.