Some Questions On the Game

[monniker]

Hello and good day,

I'm writing because I'm developing an interest in WW2 era strategy games. I've got some of the newer Grigsby titles, and am in over my head but loving them. However, my interest was piqued in this title because of the industrial and production options, and more importantly for my personal interest, the ability to play China and Italy during the war.

I was wondering if any players here would care to talk about whether or not they enjoy playing those two nations, and if they think they're well simulated, for lack of a better term. I understand they're probably lumped in with a general Allies or Axis player, but any opinions are welcome.

[juntoalmar]

I think your hands are pretty much tied when playing with China (not too many options).

Italy, on the other hand, can give you some good time playing, messing in the Med.

(posts asking "why would you want to play with China or Italy" in 3... 2... 1...)

[alexvand]

China should never be played as a separate player. Far too boring as there isn't much to do. (Although the new maps in MWiF do change the game from the original board game.)

Italy can be a lot of fun as a separate player. Italy doesn't have a lot of resources and needs German support, but it can be a lot of fun to play. It's always fun to see how much you can accomplish when you are an underdog.

[brian brian]

My first game of World in Flames, ever, was in charge of the Italians and I have enjoyed playing them ever since. Most commonly Italy is played in conjunction with Japan, and that makes for a great combination.

China is interesting to play but as said, not a lot there for a player to play only China. China is frequently not played very well as their best option is to trade space for time, much easier on the MWiF map. They should also choose the Blitz table when defending to minimize their losses. But wargame players play for pride and prefer to go for the kill so they order the Chinese to hold fast in their positions and hope the Japanese roll poorly.

I would say Italy in WWII is a little bit generously simulated by the design, but not too terribly. I don't think the war in China is modeled very well by World in Flames however.

[tom730_slith]

As others have said, Italy can be a lot of fun with many options. It certainly is not a "major" power - which is correct historically- but if you start with a simplified version (as I still do) and not use the Oil Rules you can do a lot with that fleet!
Depending on your strategy there are also possible minor countries that can align with you and add to your options. The best of them is Spain (adding some production capacity as well as some additional units), but you also can potentially have Yugoslavia (decent army and added production capacity) and and even Iraq and Iran/Persia (not much in the way of units but resources and strategic access to the under-belly of the USSR.
I actually enjoy playing Italy, but then again, I have up to now stayed away from the Oil Rules!

[Centuur]

Playing Italy is having fun, if your German ally allows you to have that fun...

However, a wise German player acknowledges the fact that an active Italian fleet and a reasonable Italian air force means a huge distraction and discomfort for the CW. So he will provide you with the necessary oil to make sure the Italian player is that nasty bug flying around the Med, interdicting Allied shipping and trying to capture French and CW positions in the Med itself.

Also as an Italian player, you of course demand that the Euroaxis strategy stays away from the USSR, until the Med is an Axis (Italian!) lake. Mare Nostrum. No Italian planes for the Ostfront, if the eternal city needs a garrison...

The badgering, screaming, negotiations and diplomacy involved to get precious resources, build points and oil from Germany to Italy is something which really gives a multiplayer game more value. If there are 2 Axis players, never have Italy played by the German player. Always combine Italy with Japan. That gives more realism to the game.

[michaelbaldur]

the only thing I hate about Italy, is the easy conquest rule ..

I had a Big army in Italy, and could have hold out the rest of the war ..easily

and they hadn´t even taken Rome .. they took Tripoli, a factory and flood the country with garrison(mostly airplanes).

but filling the country with units, does not mean that you taken it.


so I wish there were a normal conquest of Italy option.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

the only thing I hate about Italy, is the easy conquest rule ..

I had a Big army in Italy, and could have hold out the rest of the war ..easily

and they hadn´t even taken Rome .. they took Tripoli, a factory and flood the country with garrison(mostly airplanes).

but filling the country with units, does not mean that you taken it.


so I wish there were a normal conquest of Italy option.

Now, that's an extra optional rule I would like to have too. It will make the game very differrent regarding the Med, I think...

[alexvand]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

the only thing I hate about Italy, is the easy conquest rule ..

I had a Big army in Italy, and could have hold out the rest of the war ..easily

and they hadn´t even taken Rome .. they took Tripoli, a factory and flood the country with garrison(mostly airplanes).

but filling the country with units, does not mean that you taken it.


so I wish there were a normal conquest of Italy option.

Fascinating. I find it too hard to conquer Italy. It's nowhere near historical. My current game has Italy still alive in J/A 1945! (The Germans gave Italy full production from very early on!)

[Jagdtiger14]

And Alex, that is exactly what you do with Italy! Besides the obvious fleet and potential air power, Italy has lots of specialized tools that are critical to invading Gibraltar (align rather than invade Spain)/Malta/take Athens (align rather than invade Yugoslavia) and more.

Germany should keep Italy at full production (to the highest .5 round up) from the soonest possible, and add to that BP's to build what ever.

China: It is very possible, and I see it in MWiF that eventually...whether its with USSR help, or later when Japan is at war with the US, China can begin to grow, expand and fight back...and even reach the coast to possibly begin constructing naval units and interfere with Japanese convoys. Of course it all depends on what the Japs focus on.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

And Alex, that is exactly what you do with Italy! Besides the obvious fleet and potential air power, Italy has lots of specialized tools that are critical to invading Gibraltar (align rather than invade Spain)/Malta/take Athens (align rather than invade Yugoslavia) and more.

Germany should keep Italy at full production (to the highest .5 round up) from the soonest possible, and add to that BP's to build what ever.

China: It is very possible, and I see it in MWiF that eventually...whether its with USSR help, or later when Japan is at war with the US, China can begin to grow, expand and fight back...and even reach the coast to possibly begin constructing naval units and interfere with Japanese convoys. Of course it all depends on what the Japs focus on.

About China - yes, I agree.

What Japan has to do is eliminate at least as many Chinese units per turn as the Chinese are able to build. If Japan can make the Chinese net -1 unit per turn, then success is assured for Japan. And that's before the US can enter the war. But if China can be net +1 unit per turn, then Japan is in serious trouble.