Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

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Lokasenna
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Olorin

Months ago (game time) I was hoping that China could be finished before autumn ends so that the unrestricted forces committed there could be made available in time for the WC operation. Is the capture of Chungking likely before October/November? It looks like the collapse of the Chinese Army is imminent.


I will be pulling them out no matter the progress. I seriously doubt Chungking falls that early, but perhaps.

But I will be pulling the troops out no matter what for the West Coast operation.


Hrm....
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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

Game moving slowly due to family holidays on both our parts.

I have the turn, but haven't touched in several days. Jocke won't be back until after the weekend.

Thinking about the game, but haven't actually done anything. Sorry.[;)]
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Olorin
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Olorin »

sorry, wrong thread! Disregard.
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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

Got a turn done for Jocke...

It will be August.[X(] New fighter planes will be rolling off the assembly line. I want to show Jocke the new models as soon as possible to further reinforce his inability to fight the KB -- a line of reasoning I know he already has when confronted by A6M5s in summer of 42.

Plans are ramping up for the West Coast Attack...distractions that are India/Ledo, Noumea are still ongoing.

I need now to plan a Perth operation to let him think a push to grab it will occur. Not much I can do here, but start recon and perhaps planning with some divisions.
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Lokasenna
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Got a turn done for Jocke...

It will be August.[X(] New fighter planes will be rolling off the assembly line. I want to show Jocke the new models as soon as possible to further reinforce his inability to fight the KB -- a line of reasoning I know he already has when confronted by A6M5s in summer of 42.

Plans are ramping up for the West Coast Attack...distractions that are India/Ledo, Noumea are still ongoing.

I need now to plan a Perth operation to let him think a push to grab it will occur. Not much I can do here, but start recon and perhaps planning with some divisions.

Are you not doing too much? I'm concerned that with your frenzy of operations up off Calcutta, your current ops in SOPAC, what you've got going on elsewhere, PLUS a Perth operation/diversion - does that not add up to several bridges too far when taking into account your ambitions for CONUS?
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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

August 1, 1942

Jocke sends some unescorted bombers in... a few short of 20 shot down.

However, his armor follow across the river and just barely gets a 2-1 causing the RTA 1/3rd of a division to retreat. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, as all the troops in northern India will be railing out today and back to a shorter defensive line.

We grab Aoba and all shipping in the area retires back to Rabaul without encountering to bad effect any of the numerous submarines.

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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Got a turn done for Jocke...

It will be August.[X(] New fighter planes will be rolling off the assembly line. I want to show Jocke the new models as soon as possible to further reinforce his inability to fight the KB -- a line of reasoning I know he already has when confronted by A6M5s in summer of 42.

Plans are ramping up for the West Coast Attack...distractions that are India/Ledo, Noumea are still ongoing.

I need now to plan a Perth operation to let him think a push to grab it will occur. Not much I can do here, but start recon and perhaps planning with some divisions.

Are you not doing too much? I'm concerned that with your frenzy of operations up off Calcutta, your current ops in SOPAC, what you've got going on elsewhere, PLUS a Perth operation/diversion - does that not add up to several bridges too far when taking into account your ambitions for CONUS?


Everything is winding down. The Perth operation will be prep by ID, better recon and some Iboats. Deception basically. The IDs heading east will have a final destination in Java.

The final Indian adventure is winding down.

Noumea was more deception. If it were free, I would have taken it...not the case.

I will be pulling all these divisions back and Jocke needs to think something about them...so let him think either Noumea, Perth or Ceylon/India so I am trying to give him information on all three and let him draw the conclusion he wants. Or even conclude that I have gone over to the defensive with a ready reaction force or extreme hive defense.

Basically both Noumea and India were attempts to test Jocke's willingness to fight. Which he is.
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Rio Bravo
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Rio Bravo »

Lowepe-

This is fun reading both your and Jock's AARs; each of your thought process'...and it is a fun war to follow.

Both of you do a great job on keeping all of us updated.

I am just chomping at the bit to ask both of you more questions, but can't, since I am following both of you.

One thing for sure, I have sure learned alot reading your and Jock's AARs!

Thanks!

Best Regards,

-Terry
"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven
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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

I have lined up all my AA for the west coast invasion. One less thing to do.[:)]

I need to finish off taking all the dot bases in the SRA and the Solomons. There maybe even two in the Aluetians I was hoping the row boats would take.

Bombing Vancouver today...moving up to 15K. Allied flak is really terrible.

Looking forward to getting my new fighters into harms way, but it will probably be two weeks.

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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

India, Aug of 1942



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Alfred
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Alfred »

Bases like Silchar, Imphal, Kohima, Dimapur and Ledo can be a major obstacle for the Allies if they have good fortification levels.  Although they don't have road links back to your supply depots in Upper Burma, it is only limited jungle hexes in between, so tthey should be able to  be supplies relatively easily.  IOW, a relatively small Japanese force could hold down a much larger Allied forces for quite some time.  Provided you have forts and you are not weakening your West Coast schwerpunkt.
 
The other thing is that if the Allies come at you in significant force to recapture those bases, there might be an opening for a quick amphibious raid behind the lines to reduce the size of enemy supply generating facilities.  Also keeps him off balance and helps to mask the real strategic schwerpunkt.  Again with the caveat it doesn't adversely affect the West Coast operation and you are prepared to totally lose 100% of the raiders.
 
Alfred
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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

Not much action today...

Jocke continues to flex his muscles with a PT raid on Coal Harbor. IJN Destroyers easily repulse them...

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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

Early August, 1942

I pick the wrong day to take the Tojo IIa and a full sentai of Zeroes off protecting Coal Harbor, they sweep Vancouver for no effect, while the Americans strike at Coal Harbor with P38s and heavy bombers. Our defense still does very well, most zero losses are over in India protecting some troops in LRCAP.



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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

A sample P38 sweep over Coal Harbor. Notice that my reduced CAP is stacked, but very low...

You simply have to get the P38 down low, I shudder to think what another 80 fighters would have done. I always make the wrong air choices.[;)]

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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

In a skirmish versus my heavily escorted AK at Coal Harbor, we sink an Allied destroyer, and lose nothing. Jocke continues flexing his muscles...I see more destroyers heading up the West Coast.

Over in China, we prosecute another attack.

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Lowpe
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Lowpe »

Plane notes...

Two size 30 research facilities for the Oscar IIb are converted to production and make a plane, hence they cannot switch back to research. Live and learn.

Yesterday I was at 97%, I let the two factories continue r&d, but the manufacture of the 1 IIb I guess prohibits their usual first day shift back to research. I guess I will have more Oscar IIbs than originally thought.[;)]

The first squadron upgrades to the A6M5. Another mistake, as it was a Rufe squadron that I wanted to stay Rufe. Oh well.

Now, the relatively long wait for the Tony and Tojo IIb. October to November for them.
GetAssista
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Two size 30 research facilities for the Oscar IIb are converted to production and make a plane, hence they cannot switch back to research. Live and learn.

Yesterday I was at 97%, I let the two factories continue r&d, but the manufacture of the 1 IIb I guess prohibits their usual first day shift back to research.
Always flip Production flag to No in the industry tab for R&D factories. Unless you are sure this would be producing factory, but that you can do manually when time comes anyway.
Mahrgell
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Mahrgell »

Hm,
long time lurker in this forum. Really astonishing results you got so far. But there is one thing I have wondered for quite some time now, whenever reading your AAR, that caused me to register just to ask it.
Why San Diego? What is so special about San Diego that you want to crash in there? Is it only because of the interceptable rail line? Because this is actually all I can find as a Plus for San Diego. Or is it about those small islands in front of Sand Diego, which would allow some AC to be parked (but as they have no bases prebuilt, and you only want to have a quick raid, this is sounds odd to me)
I'm always comparing it to Portland, which would be my "If I would be ever in position to invade the WC, I would invade here" target. Reasons making me think about Portland are:
- Portland is about the same VP value as San Diego (considering you are close by there, I would expect him to actually expand the airfield, making it even)
- taking Portland kills 50-60 CVE!!! The game might even be playable and possible to continue on, with all those gone, even when he gets the emergency troops.
- even better, if it is true, that you get half their VP, this would net you about 2500 VP, that can never be taken from you ever again.
- actually CVE are the smallest part of Portlands production, so you would also cancel all those Libertyships, TK and what else is built there. If it really gives half VP, then those VP from all those would probably win you the game right away without it being even close, even if you donate a chunk of your fleet for it. So there is some margin of error as long as you get the base. While with SanDiego losing 2 CV may suddenly mean you need another 2000 VP from somewhere to get your 4:1.
- Portland is actually in range of some of your LBA from Coal Harbor/Bella/Alliford.
- a secondary Invasion/drop on some base nearby may enable you to fly in landbased fighters covering the scene.
- even if your fleet is spotted by Sigint or other means, up there they look much less suspicious then on the way down to San Diego. Getting down there unnoticed is actually quite difficult. Portland instead is just a 2 day leap from your "expected" positions.

Now about how to invade Portland. There are imho 3 options:
a) Go straight up the river into Portland. Now this means you get the full brunt of the Astoria CD with the punishment for going up the river (narrow straight). This CD has less barrels total than the CD of Victoria or San Diego, but more high caliber ones. Then again your AP will sink regardless of what hits them. In the end, the losses taken from this would have to be tested before. Like what if you manage to get a bombardment in before invasion fleet speeds through? At least Portland has no stationary CD, so once you passed by Astoria you can "safely" unload. As I said, this would probably have to be tested before. Compared to your Victoria tests also it could be mentioned that Victoria and Vancouver are mined by default. Astoria and Portland aren't. Not sure he expects something that bold.
b) Invade Astoria with the first fleet, hope to break it in max 3 days and then charge up the river. If running by in a) is impossible this may be a solution, but depends on what defense recon finds in Astoria. Reduces the CD losses, but slows the entire operation down.
c) Invade Tillamook and walk over. Tillamook has no (stationary) CD or anything, and I could see you taking it in 1 day. Luckily you again can recon it easily there without raising too much suspisions. Has the advantage of you not having to mess around with CD at all. Still, walking to Portland takes a few days and may be too slow before reinforcments get railed in. Also the river there is mildly annoying. But depending on recon you may be able to paradrop on Corvalis cutting the raillines southwards. It is reachable even from Alliford (range 20). Pendleton is also a viable droptarget but that rail is less useful if Corvalis is still open. CoosBay may be a possible secondary invasion target just for its airbase.
GetAssista
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell
Why San Diego?
Portland looks nigh impossible to capture unless Jocke is a noob, because reinforcements will rail in from all directions into 2x hex with forts. SD can be isolated from that for quite some time by landing at Santa Ana then marching into LA, and you are ok defensively
Alfred
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RE: Manila Falls

Post by Alfred »

San Diego is most definitely not necessarily the best choice.  Which is why some months ago I said that the target location needs to be carefully evaluated.  Ultimately it depends on the forces available for the operation and the disposition of the enemy forces.
 
San Diego is attractive for its industrial production (aircraft in particular) and the theoretical ability to isolate it for a short period of time.  But I have serious reservations about the ability to actually effect a complete cordon sanitaire around San Diego.  It is the main arrival location for USMC units and a fair bit of the land combat power of the USN.  Without the cordon sanitaire San Diego will probably be impregnable if some, let alone all, of those units are based there before leaving for overseas duty.
 
On the other hand, the same effort to isolate San Diego can be expended at Portland (or other northern bases).  Done more quickly and at less cost as paras can be dropped from existing bases without the need for capturing any channel island bases first which will tip off the enemy.  Plus IJN losses can be miniscule for Portland.  Not only is Portland, unless it has been reinforce, vulnerable to direct capture by paras only, Tillamock starts off with no LCUs and it can be captured by paras (if not reinforced) or by direct amphibious landings with a quick overland march to Portland/Astoria/Corvallis etc.
 
Those two are not the only attractive North American targets.  As I said a great deal of planning is required.  Not just on locations but also when.
 
Alfred 
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