Begging

[wings7]

Forgive my ignorance, what the hell is the "ME Game Style"?

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
It sounds it can get awfully confusing to keep the modules up to date though, but why not especially if ones interested about certain battles only.

Our game titles with covering a wider era and several conflicts is not well suited to that I don't think. At least for me it makes more sense to just get in at some stage, be it at a launch or maybe later when game's on sale perhaps. And then just have everything available.

I agree with your points, but wanted to point out this alternative model. For me the attractiveness of their model has nothing to do with saving money--I have no problem paying for content that I want--but I really like game systems that provide as big a sandbox as possible rather than compartmentalizing content into separate titles. In other words, I'd like to be able to play US vs Soviets in mid-1945, etc.

But that said, the fact that your East Front game will cover the entire East Front (I hope!) certainly alleviates this concern, which is more of an issue for game series which break separate titles down into discrete battles or short periods.

Anyway, not really complaining, just voicing some thoughts.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
Bullshit.

You are going to unbundle the series because it is what you want to do. It does not have to make sense and if you sell it to Matrix as a way to make money then that is what you are doing.
***
You want to port over all the garbage that ME contains making the series a moot point anyway? And, breaking the series apart will give you personal longevity?

With all due respect, could you please take it down a couple of notches? One of the things I like about this Matrix forums in general, and this one in particular, is that there is a limited amount of vitriol. Is calling "bullshit" really appropriate?

And I don't understand your point--what "garbage" are you worried about being ported over from CSME? I rather like its new features.

And what do you mean by "unbundling"? As I understand it the series was originally introduced as separate titles, and only then bundled. Are you mainly worried about paying for x number of new titles?

Finally, you seem to be complaining about the devs making money, and that they are seeking to prolong their "personal longetivity"? The fact is that without these devs this series would have gradually sunk into complete gaming oblivion--I couldn't even play them because without the new 2D zoom level, I could hardly seen the units on the screen. And I don't know anybody who is willing to develop the games that I want for free; if you do, please PM me with their e-mail, because I've got a long list of ideas I'd like for them to get busy with...

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

You are going to unbundle the series because it is what you want to do.

I am sorry that was not the answer you were hoping to hear. We are not to sit out three years putting something similar out, I am sure players would not want to wait out that long either, and maybe not many would like to buy a game priced to match the scope and effort. The price would not be that of the 2007 JTCS bundle as it is currently priced.

So yes, that is what we want to do.

In your opening post you asked us to "Clean it up and give us new scenarios. " That was the free 2.0 UPDATE.

Not free to come up with, I assure. Hundreds of hours of effort to have it out and available.

[Crossroads]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

But that said, the fact that your East Front game will cover the entire East Front (I hope!) certainly alleviates this concern, which is more of an issue for game series which break separate titles down into discrete battles or short periods.

Anyway, not really complaining, just voicing some thoughts.

Sure, all ideas and feedback always welcome [:)]

Yes, the new East Front title will be the entire East Front literally, including the various Minors now having an outing in the Forgotten Battles mod. Time period is not set yet, but maybe something like CS: East Front 1930-1947 to be able to include the various border skirmishes too.

Lots of work ahead, should be fun though!

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
Yes, the new East Front title will be the entire East Front literally, including the various Minors now having an outing in the Forgotten Battles mod. Time period is not set yet, but maybe something like CS: East Front 1930-1947 to be able to include the various border skirmishes too.

Sounds great, only disappointed we'll have to wait so long for it...[:(] Have you guys decided whether to do West Front or East Front after Vietnam?

[Crossroads]

West Front would be the obvious choice, with less nations to cover and convert than East Front. Then, we'd have the tools and techniques perfected it would be easier to tackle EF. It is not set in stone quite yet I don't think, but the odds would be with WF I'd guess.

But yeah, with JTCS 2.0 completed, CS Middle East completed, getting CS Vietnam out of the door is the next priority [:)]

[scottintacoma]

This is in response to RR, Please remember where first published by TalonSoft they were not bundled, and you had to by any extra content you wanted as well.

I don't have a problem buying each game individually again, I think the Dev team is doing a great job

[MrRoadrunner]

One man's garbage is another man's gold. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.

And, just because it was un-bundled at one time is not a reason to un-bundle it now.

Excuses are excuses.

Lack of customer service is never a good excuse.

New coke was never going to replace classic coke.

RR

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
with JTCS 2.0 completed, CS Middle East completed, getting CS Vietnam out of the door is the next priority [:)]

Hopefully buying time?

Maybe you could do CS Napoleonic, CS Civil War, CS Spanish American War, CS WWI, CS Korea, CS Grenada, CS Kosovo, CS Starship Troopers, CS Star Wars before you get to tear apart the classic?

RR

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
And, just because it was un-bundled at one time is not a reason to un-bundle it now.

I'm still trying to understand what exactly you're asking for...if you want to keep playing the bundled version you can, right? If you don't want the improvements in the new, unbundled version you don't have to buy it...

So what are you asking for exactly?

[osiris_slith]

Hi

I totally agree with matrix on splitting the games. They need to make money with these titles and I don't blame them. The amount of work that needs to be done plus with a full time job on top of it is a energy draining blood sucking beast labour of love. As fans of these games we had it very good...access to 3 titles with nearly 500 scenarios for not very much. As fans we need to support this so that we don't end up with having to pay for the OOB database as a separate feature and I do not support any idea where we have to pay for features as extra.

So if matrix games wants $100.$150 from me for 3 titles, 500 scenarios, 10-15 LCGS plus new graphics and new engine...they certainly have me by the balls and my wallet. I have no problem paying..it would be a privilege to do so because the quality of these titles simply cannot be beat

[osiris_slith]

u really need to calm down..do this in your head

Up wake up at 6am get ready for work...
u work 9-5
then u come home..
and from 6pm to 1-2am in the morning your working on maps, researching battle information, creating oobs, testing scenarios..

6 days a week...and that's what I do for free!!!!

they need to unbundle so that the development team can get paid...

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: osiris


u really need to calm down..do this in your head

Up wake up at 6am get ready for work...
u work 9-5
then u come home..
and from 6pm to 1-2am in the morning your working on maps, researching battle information, creating oobs, testing scenarios..

6 days a week...and that's what I do for free!!!!

they need to unbundle so that the development team can get paid...

You need to leave the development team and stick to real life. I'm not going to boo hoo for you over something you volunteer to do.

Especially when you now say you want to be paid for doing something that is ruining, and going to further erode, the game?

Please stop before you make a further fool of yourself.

RR

[Warhorse]

He's not on the devel team, Ed.

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: osiris

Hi

I totally agree with matrix on splitting the games. They need to make money with these titles and I don't blame them. The amount of work that needs to be done plus with a full time job on top of it is a energy draining blood sucking beast labour of love. As fans of these games we had it very good...access to 3 titles with nearly 500 scenarios for not very much. As fans we need to support this so that we don't end up with having to pay for the OOB database as a separate feature and I do not support any idea where we have to pay for features as extra.

So if matrix games wants $100.$150 from me for 3 titles, 500 scenarios, 10-15 LCGS plus new graphics and new engine...they certainly have me by the balls and my wallet. I have no problem paying..it would be a privilege to do so because the quality of these titles simply cannot be beat

My whole reason for pushing back against what is being done is displayed above in a nutshell.

If you look at ME, their crown jewel, it proved to have all the bugs and glitches that simple play testing would have discovered (if done by others who are not yes men).

He speaks of quality?
Look at the lopsided scenarios that had to be remade due to one, imbalance when they said that they were head to head, and two, even after remake they still are almost unplayable.

Some would say you need to understand how to make balanced scenarios for H2H before stating something is quality.

RR

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

He's not on the devel team, Ed.

Then he needs to shut up and not imply that he is?
IMO he makes bad scenarios too!

When a labor of love becomes a grab for money it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

RR

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner
And, just because it was un-bundled at one time is not a reason to un-bundle it now.

I'm still trying to understand what exactly you're asking for...if you want to keep playing the bundled version you can, right? If you don't want the improvements in the new, unbundled version you don't have to buy it...

So what are you asking for exactly?

Here is what am asking for:

For them to leave the Campaign Series alone. Leave it til last. Make all the other "niche" games they wish. Just do not ruin something that has been around for so long as separate, and now bundled, so that they can simply say "we did something".
Cut their teeth, make their bones, on something they create instead of ruining something they did not.

And, which came out first EF or WF? If you know and/or do your research you will find out the reasons why.
Hint, which came out first Panzer Leader or Panzer Blitz? Squad Leader packs for East Front or West Front?

When they un-bundle what are they going to do first?
Does it make smart business sense? What would the Matrix business people think, if they knew?

RR

[76mm]

RR, thanks for your explanation, but I still don't understand why you consider the revamped series to be "ruining" the Campaign Series...what is it about it that you find so problematic?

Also, I still don't understand why you're so excited about this--if you like the current series surely you can keep playing it?

Personally I can't enjoy the current series because I can't really see the units on the screen due to screen resolution issues...

[Crossroads]

Competitive H2H PBEM ladders such as the Blitz are a bit special as several players there have said they prefer play balance over historical accuracy. With Arab-Israel wars, many of the battles were lopsided and balancing them for H2H can be a challenge with some of them. There's a few Tournament What-If scenarios included for the purpose too.

As games get recorded there, the Scenario Database ratings can help to choose the most balanced per outcome scenarios for H2H purposes. There's some 50 games recorded there, with some very good ratings and some not so good at the other end too. This is the case with other titles too, but CS Middle East does not have that rich history yet, while CS Ladder for WW II titles at the Blitz includes results from Talonsoft versions on.