Titan Deisgn Concepts

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Wed May 21, 2003 4:34 am

Originally posted by tarendelcymir
That's only true for low-level jocks. Once they get a little more experienced, they should easily be able to have pretty good scores in three or more weapon types.

It's not efficient to do that. Better to bring you skills for one or two weapon classess as high as they'll go.
If your jock has 75% skill in every weapon class, he'll be at a disadvantage against a jock with 90% in just one. That's the reality of the maths.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Wed May 21, 2003 9:06 am

There is a reason that rather than just predesign a few titans, the game has a dedicated factory. Design all you want. Fill up those empty spaces in the factory. Its all part of the game.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:45 pm

Originally posted by Coyote27
It's not efficient to do that. Better to bring you skills for one or two weapon classess as high as they'll go.
If your jock has 75% skill in every weapon class, he'll be at a disadvantage against a jock with 90% in just one. That's the reality of the maths.

Math also showed me that 90% om energy weapons didn't help against a shield 6 but 75/75% energy/cannon skill did.

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Wed May 21, 2003 5:19 pm

How many development points does it take to raise dexterity and reaction to their maximum? I'd guess a whole lot. Its more efficient to use some of those points to raise other skills like Business, damage control, or Leadership. Development points spent on attributes can't be spent on skills.

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Wed May 21, 2003 8:15 pm

I generally only raise attributes when my jocks advance a level and get the large point bonus, unless they start out with a score less than 10 - at that point I generally try to raise at least the important scores to 10. Any points I earn through battles go to raising skills.

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Wed May 21, 2003 9:24 pm

Originally posted by LarkinVB
Math also showed me that 90% om energy weapons didn't help against a shield 6 but 75/75% energy/cannon skill did.

Hehe. True, that. That's why I think using two weapon types makes sense, if one makes up for the other's weakness.
However, if you're using two titans, one with energy weapons and one with cannons, then it gets a lot easier.

Basically what I mean is that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to learn everything halfway when for (about) the same cost you can learn just what you need and excel at it.

ps. I believe that "Jack of all trades" translates into German as "Good for nothing." I guess that pretty much sums it up.

whitefirefox · Post by **whitefirefox** » Thu May 22, 2003 12:14 am

well if you consider it even IF you have cannon andenegry you still want meelee right? i mean you never know when that enemy titan will gain enough distance on you to make you fight hand to hand er saw to saw or axe to axe or whatever so it kind of makes sense to use 3 weapon types (personnaly i think a cannon missle meelee works wonderfully well even with the xp spread out like that you can hit your opponent sooner harder and cripple them pretty fast

EDIT: is korgmiester even alive anymore? he hasn't posted in awhile....

tarendelcymir · Post by **tarendelcymir** » Thu May 22, 2003 1:43 am

I'd have to agree there, too. My jocks are almost invariably proficient with hand to hand combat as well as two other weapon types. Any less, and you're asking for trouble due to too many limitations.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri May 23, 2003 2:23 am

Heh, he is an expert, so why bother? I have lost count of how many people started precisely like this...
Wait until he checks the DP cost curve. Heheh.

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:47 am

Sorry if I came off as arrogant, that's not my intention at all. I know I'm a newbie here. But I also know that I'm not completely ignorant, I understand a lot more than someone who's been playing for a couple weeks.

I guess I can try testing jocks with 1000 development points against each other to see what works in actuality compared to what simply looks like it should work by seeing the numbers. Min-max theory is both simple and horrifyingly complicated.

Also, I generally don't take much skill with close combat compared to other weapons if I've got a pair of plasma guns or gauss rifles the enemy likely as not will never get into melee range anyway, 'specially if I'm making called shots from 3 or 4 squares out.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Fri May 23, 2003 1:00 pm

Well, if what you say is true, then you must be experienced in this kind of game. If that is true, then you should know that vets usually have a reason to say what they say. Whatever you *think* you know, wouldn't you think someone that has been playing the game for *years* as compared to weeks might (just might) be right? Food for thought...
Being ignorant of things and not knowing the quirks and balances of a game are two very different things. Like I said in some other thread, this game takes ages to master, if that's what you want to do with it.

Maybe you could have tried that before donning the expert cap?! BTW, 1000 DPs will produce a rank 2 team - hardly a test for what you proposed.
Numbers?! Min-max theory?! Tsk tsk. Play the game instead of crunching the numbers. You'll see a whole different world

I could tell you a few things about called shots and close combat and movement and terrain and stuff. But I won't.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat May 24, 2003 8:03 pm

Originally posted by Coyote27
I'm not looking at it atm either, but I remember that the engine was too small, so you couldn't shoot the gauss rifles and move at the same time... :rolleyes: lunchmeat.

(about the Cutthroat)

Titan Design 101

To be able to fit twin gauss cannons in a light frame, something has got to go. The engine? Sure. The PU for each gauss cannon is only needed for *firing* them - that is, at the moment you hit the button. So firing them when still doesn't require an engine bigger than 1. Engines are pretty heavy and bulky, so keeping them small in size is the best option as long as it doesn't affect the performance in a significant way - in other words, the trade-off is worth it.

Titan Combat 101

Unless in a tight situation, only fire your weapons when *standing still*. Firing on the move penalizes you.
Choose a firing position that is the best for your weapons loadout *and* that is the worst for your opponent's.

Cutthroat Tactics 101

The gauss cannon is a medium range weapon, that's where you'll want to be to maximize your firepower - notice that it has a minimum range. The power axe? For defense or rush tactics. Your heat dissipation will barely hold your twin gausses firing, let alone movement or the LMG or PX. Crap design? No. It is supposed to be still, sniping with the GCs. Need to move? No prob, fire, wait 1 sec (to recover the 2 PUs from the coils), move, wait for move to finish, fire, repeat. You'll be more vulnerable during that second, but your reload times are higher than your displacement times most of the time, so no loss there.
Bottom line, you get massive firepower in a light for a low cost in terms of gameplay.

Is this the worst stock titan in your oppinion? Ahem. Then maybe you should go merge the database back in?
Any others you need advice about?

Notice this design isn't even mine, so I'm not biased. However, I can look at it and in a glance know what it is supposed to be played like. Not very hard, comes with experience...

Coyote27 · Post by **Coyote27** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:56 am

Interesting. Thank you.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sun May 25, 2003 4:19 am

Ok, no prob. Just try to have a little faith in what other people do. Those titans wouldn't be in the standard database if they were *that* crappy, don't you think?

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:59 pm

Hey, Thorgrim I like your review of the Cutthroat. I'd be interested in reading your insights on any of the designs in the database.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:28 pm

All 150+ of them?

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:10 pm

No, just some of the more misunderstood ones like the Ancient Mariner for example. And to make things simpler stick to Titans of Steel Warring Suns database. So we all know which one you're refering to.