Japanese Defense in depth

[CapAndGown]

Originally posted by Drongo
On my understanding, had the Japanese defenders been in a good base for the duration, they would have suffered less from attrition, taken less casualties from the pre-invasion attacks and defended better against the landing.

I have to agree here. Build the ports and airfields all up to size 3. Any less then that and you start to go higher than needed on fatigue. On the other hand, the difference between fatigue accumulation at a size three base and a size 9 base seems to be less than whatever random number is generated to determine if fatigue is 35 or 37. Once you get to size three your fatigue will top out abt about 36. For size nine, it may top out at 34, but with the RNG, this is no difference at all.

Oh, and I defer to the sainted Drongo on the rest of his points as well.
:p

[Chiteng]

I thought the documentation clearly states that
LBA need a level 4 airbase and a air HQ
OR their airstrikes are severly punished.

What dont I understand?

[Drongo]

I have to agree here. Build the ports and airfields all up to size 3. Any less then that and you start to go higher than needed on fatigue. On the other hand, the difference between fatigue accumulation at a size three base and a size 9 base seems to be less than whatever random number is generated to determine if fatigue is 35 or 37. Once you get to size three your fatigue will top out abt about 36. For size nine, it may top out at 34, but with the RNG, this is no difference at all.

Here is a classic case of using the Force rather than the manual in my decision making. It feels right to me.

I agree with you on fatigue but my main concern was attrition rates. I've noticed that the bigger the base, the less unit attrition (regardless of HQ effects, etc).

Casualties - I've never tested this one but the larger the base (both port/airbase size AND fort), the less casualties taken/supplies lost from air and bombardment attacks. Wouldn't push it as gospel to other players but keeps me happy.

Of course, I only do this if the other base expansions are going along nicely and I can leave the engineers at Lunga/PM. My minimums for the other bases are similar to yours but I prefer 3 Port, 4 Airbase and 9 Fort (greedy, aren't I).

Oh, and I defer to the sainted Drongo on the rest of his points as well.

Group hugs all round.

[Drongo]

Posted by Chiteng

I thought the documentation clearly states that
LBA need a level 4 airbase and a air HQ
OR their airstrikes are severly punished.

What dont I understand?

Yep, that's what the manual says to operate at optimum levels. I normally set it up that way.

I think some of the other posters are considering other factors as well (like not having the resources, the time or not wanting to hand the allied player an airbase that can fully operate B17s). Or they're just stupid.

[mogami]

Hi, When I say I don't pile up troops at a base. I am not implying I only use a SNLF. I like a Bde size defense. This allows for part of the unit to be at Truk (IJA Div with 3 Rgt/Bde assigned defense of Lunga would have 1 Rgt/Bde on Lunga another at Shortland and the third at Truk. When the forward unit reaches a certain point of fatigue and wear, it is removed (and shipped to Truk) and replaced. Flexability is maintained regarding movement of reinforcments to threatened bases.

A standard (for me) deployment would look like this.
Rabaul Division: Rgt at Rabaul, Kaveing, Truk
Shortlands: Rgt at Shortlands, Rabaul, Truk
Lunga: Rgt at Lunga, SHortlands, Truk
PM and Gili each with 2 Bde (1 on location the other at Truk)
Other NG bases with 2-4 of the smaller units (1 or 2 on location the others at Rabaul/Truk)
As the allies I have never FAILED to capture Lunga. I really love the giant Japanese defense 100k troops) I have to borrow a few SWPAC divisions but once the battle is over. I do not need to mount any further large invasions (All the Japs died on Lunga)
Also I no longer have to worry about leaving large garrisions behind.

Japanese counter attack. On the day I see enemy transports headed for one of my bases, I order troops to begin loading on transports. I move the TF's toward the target while the battle proceeds. (If I do not clear the landing area I don't go in)
Always load your transports for rapid unloading.

Size 4 airfields are required by heavy/medium bombers. under a size 4 the bomber loads extended load and flys at reduced range.
However carrier type bombers operate fine from a size 3 airfield.
If your not basing larger planes you don't need the larger field.

[Drongo]

Posted by Mogami

Hi, When I say I don't pile up troops at a base. I am not implying I only use a SNLF. I like a Bde size defense.

I didn't think you would use a SNLF for that. I mentioned it in reference to someone else's post.

I prefer a divisional equivalent for the following reasons.

1) I've normally always been able to get sufficient supply through to maintain minimum levels. When I haven't, it's been because no supply can get through so it wouldn't make a difference whether it was a division or a bigade.

2) The loss of a division doesn't really hurt the Japanese. The loss of a key defensive position like Port Moresby does.

3) Even though a division won't hold the location on it's own, it does have staying power and it does force a larger allied effort. The bigger the allied effort, the more chance of really hurting him.

4) The Japanese have so many divisions around in '43, it's bloody annoying to have most of them just sitting around at Truk.

This allows for part of the unit to be at Truk (IJA Div with 3 Rgt/Bde assigned defense of Lunga would have 1 Rgt/Bde on Lunga another at Shortland and the third at Truk. When the forward unit reaches a certain point of fatigue and wear, it is removed (and shipped to Truk) and replaced. Flexability is maintained regarding movement of reinforcments to threatened bases.

Typical neat Mogami style deployment.

I normally have 2 reserve divisions at Rabaul (or nearby) which are used as immeadiate replacements or reinforcements. When it's a 9/9 base, I don't find fatigue/attrition to worrying (for me anyway). If the allies dominate the air around the destination, I use FTs on a massive scale to switch troops around the front line. I rarely have trouble finding the ships. Fatigued troops go to Truk whenever I remember.

As the allies I have never FAILED to capture Lunga. I really love the giant Japanese defense 100k troops) I have to borrow a few SWPAC divisions but once the battle is over. I do not need to mount any further large invasions (All the Japs died on Lunga)

It sounds like you never failed because you are always prepared to make the big commitment if neccesary (which is what I'd want as the Japanese to have a shot at inflicting a decisive defeat).

I completely agree that a 100k defence of Lunga is a waste of effort for the Japanese. A defence should be 20k max.

Japanese counter attack. On the day I see enemy transports headed for one of my bases, I order troops to begin loading on transports. I move the TF's toward the target while the battle proceeds. (If I do not clear the landing area I don't go in)

Still wouldn't be for me. I'd want some extra insurance in case I didn't spot his invasion force till he was virtually on me. I'd rather fast transport the first of the reserve divisional forces in while engaging his invasion force with surface combat TF's and some LBA on night strikes.

Your strategy obviously works for you but I've never found the situation clear cut enough in my PBEMs to use such an established plan. All my opponents fought differently to some degree and a lot of my defense set up came from gauging the different player styles. By the end of '42, you normally have an idea.

And obviously the games will go differently each time.

I don't think I've ever used the same defence twice, just kept the basic principles.

[mogami]

Hi, The troops that begin loading on transports are the ones at Truk. The units closer do move by FT.

The trick is to not allow fort level +2 odds.
If first allied attack is 4-1 and knocks down 3 of your 9 fort level you have to move in enough troops quickly to prevent the comming 2-1 versus 0 fort level. (I will send all available troops from local bases to do this.)
Meanwhile you know the size of the enemy force and can direct 2-1 worth towards the battle. (excess units will replace the ones Fast Transported)

The whole scheme depends on being able to reestablish control of the sea around the base. (If this is not possible then all efforts will fail). I use my subs (approx 2 days transport distance from base) to report early movement. And of course maintain constant search. Also recon of enemy bases to spot pre invasion movement build ups.


As the Allies it is very basic. Don't begin offensive landings before you have driven the IJN from the game.

[Admiral_Arctic]

Up to Feb/Mar 1943 you can maintain the mimimum at each base but once the Allied offence starts I bring in extra troops for each base to force the Allies to use more and draw out the fighting. If it takes the allies 3-4 weeks heavy fighting for Lunga, Shortlands, and GG, then it will take time to rebuild their force for the next attack. This gives you some time to reinforce the next bases that might be attacked. I try to time reinforcements to arrive not too long before I think the base is threatened. I try to send back depeleted units when possible up to April 1943. After this it is too difficult to get the transports in long enough to pull out regiments.

For Lunga, Shortlands, Gasmata, GG, Rabaul, Buna, Lae, Kavieng, Momote, Wewak I build these up to the max port and airfield and forts. And use as many troops as I can throw in for their defence.

For Munda, Vila, BeauGUNville, Russell Island I will build the forts to 9. The airfield and ports I leave as zero. I leave a small garrison and then place something bigger when needed. These bases are expendable but I try to make them partly defended. If the Allies grab one or two before I can improve the defence, too bad.

Irau, I build the forts to 9 and leave the port and airfield zero. I try to defend with large forces to keep the Allies from gaining the foothold to Slot.

PM is not very defendable for the Japs. I leave a large force there as a deterant to the Allies landed there too early. If the allies don't invade by April/May 1943, I would/will march the troops over the Track to Buna for evacuation to Truk.


I try to manage a circulation of troops so that the do not deplete before the Allies attack. I transport as many supply and fuel points as the transports will carry. I keep unloading the supplies at the bigger bases with the APs. The AGs are used to supply the zero port bases .

During the Allied offensive, I wouldn't have thought the Japs would get a chance to counter invade with APs. I use FTs to move in some extra units if there appears a small gap, but APs surely wouldn't survive. Also while moving in SC TFs I wouldn't want to be tied to slow APs while simultaneously trying to pickoff an opportunity target at/near the invasion site.
.
Also the ships and planes replacements are fixed. You get 100 Zeros per month no matter how heavy the fighting. But you get unlimited land replacements (subject to the 7 days gap). So if you loose many troops they come back (less some experince).

[Nikademus]

It does make you wonder about the land combat routines. If the Japanese player has stationed 100K of troops on a jungle hex like Lunga and yet some experienced USN players can still state that they "never" fail to take the base away, you cant help but wonder....

There was a reason for the "Island Hopping strategy" after all.




On the issue of mass. Gotta side with Bongo and Capper. Admitedly partly due to laziness of my part Planning neat, organzied and regularly scheduled troop rotation itiniearies is just not my forte. But more importantly, while you might only in the end be able to delay the inevitable 2:1 combat odds that awards an entire base to the attacker (perhaps this rule should be changed......it didn't work this way in Grigsby games of the past) The "delay" is the key.

It was my key in making SoulBlazer bleed....and i mean BLEED heavily in his bid for Lunga. The troops held out long enough to me to stage counter-attack after counter-attack. I might have even have saved the base if i hadn't gotten cute and sent a SC TF off after his carriers.....causing a reinforcement TF to be slaughtered in the process.

I usually stock my forward outposts with at least a division's worth of troops. a bit more if the target is high priority. My opponent may bypass but thats to be expected in such an environment. The point is also to deny the enemy prime real-estate.

Granted, this tactic is much reduced by the game's generous allowance of "overbuilds" that allow even the most unsuitable locations to be turned into Major airbases (Even a max size 0 dot can be outfitted to size 3.....150 planes no penalty and size 3 port)

[Mr.Frag]

Not to nit pick, but using units that attach directly to one of the theater commands means you don't have to deal with the EXTRA problem of ensuring the Division level HQ is within range to provide support. As long as you don't forget about rule 13.4, feel free to use Regiments instead of smaller naval garrison units.

The key difference really comes down to load/unload speeds. Smaller units are more quickly moved, which in turn potentially lowers the risks to your ships from a exposure duration. This is offset by the slightly higher cost per assault point of strength.

If you are moving units via Fast Transport, the naval garrisons fit quite nicely on a small group of DD's which has a much lower chance of being spotted then the number of ships required to move a regiment. You can obviously counter this by breaking up the TF after forming into smaller groups, but sometimes this results in your ships sitting there for an extra turn.

[AmiralLaurent]

Mogami, I wonder where you put the division HQ ? In your placement, you have elements of several divisions in Rabaul for example, where I would rather have one complete division in Lunga, another in Rabaul, one in Irau and so on....

Also the new rule of 2.30 that planes need fuel to fly may change things as fuel is more difficult to bring to a forward base and so it could be easier to bypass an enemy base. I don't know if people have scenarios advanced enough to see this...

[mogami]

Originally posted by AmiralLaurent
Mogami, I wonder where you put the division HQ ? In your placement, you have elements of several divisions in Rabaul for example, where I would rather have one complete division in Lunga, another in Rabaul, one in Irau and so on....

Also the new rule of 2.30 that planes need fuel to fly may change things as fuel is more difficult to bring to a forward base and so it could be easier to bypass an enemy base. I don't know if people have scenarios advanced enough to see this...

Hi, Where did you hear AC need fuel to fly? (This is not true)

The HQ locate on the base the unit is assigned to defend. (Lunga div HQ on Lunga) The reason the units appear spread out has to do with their rotation and transport use. The Japanese 3k Transports only operate between Truk and Rabaul/Kavieng or Truk Shortlands. Each base also maintains 7x1.k size transports (enough to move a Bde) These ships carry the fresh unit to the forward base and pick up the unit to be relieved.
In an emergancy they can carry a Bde and unload it 1-2 days (provided no enemy TF's present but in any event they will be escorted by friendly surface TF.)

[AmiralLaurent]

Hi, Where did you hear AC need fuel to fly? (This is not true)

Good question. I was sure this was a new feature in 2.30. Maybe it's CV planes that consumed fule to fly ?

But I have seaplanes flying from planes without fuel (or AV)...

[Mr.Frag]

The patch added a feature where SHIPS out of fuel could no longer launch aircraft. This is ships only.

Aircraft operating from land bases consume supplies, not fuel.

1 point per regular aircraft on escort or offensive mission.

Max Bomb load / 1000 for Level Bombers. (2 to 5 points)

1/3 point per aircraft on CAP or search.

This is per plane, per mission flown.

[AmiralLaurent]

Thanks Mr Frag

Anyway I will continue to put fuel on forward bases. Barges, PT and subs will use it.

[Cap Mandrake]

Originally posted by demonterico
Calculators, schedules, base assignments, fleet assignments, holy mother your making my head spin. Its not that I don't understand your reasoning its just that I'm not anywhere close to this level of game play. Wish I was though.

Actually the question which first comes to mind for Cap is how did you manage to build up so many bases? As a Japanese player I never seem to have enough engineers and it takes sooo looong for them to build. I immediately rush any newly arriving engineer units into service and drive them to work ruthlessly without ever stopping but still the bases are never enough. Are there ways to optimize engineer productivety? Is it better to mass alot of engineers in one place or should they be spread around to work on many bases at the same time. Should they be worked continuously, or should they be rested after they reach a certain level of fatgue. Maybe I could pick up a few used buldozers? That might help.

I like the general structure of your plan. I like defense in depth and have been working on my own plan for developing such a defense of my own. So, this thread is of great interest to me. I believe that one must establish their defense first before attempting to extend themselves offensively. Although one should always be prepared to take advantage of the oppotunities that lady luck sends their way.

Exactly my thoughts demonterico. Note to myself, do NOT play one of these guys! I am playing 2 PBEM games now, both as IJN. One is going well..(2 USN carriers sent back to Pearl beat up real bad, PM, Efate and Luganville captured..Japanese carriers undamaged, air groups intact) and its only late June. The second one is a struggle..its very early Aug 42.. Worr still has PM and its packed with engineers. B/o air threat his heavy bombers are back in Australia but are well preserved. Probably 2 US carriers sent back to Pearl but he has slaughtered my carrier air wings. Surface vessel losses about the same. 4 brigades worth of Aussies captured at Gilli Gilli and Dobadura. I am beginning to despair of capturing PM. The guy is psychic, I sent some surface combatants into harbor at GG for one turn and THAT turn he turns loose all his B-17's and B-25's for a port attack

Then I read this. It's like an iron curtain has descended over New Guinea! in October '42!