Air Combat TF's switching to react to enemy on their own.

Bill_L. · Post by **Bill_L.** » Thu May 22, 2003 8:32 pm

Over the last 4 turns of a PBEM game of Scenario 17 I have had several Air Combat TF's that were set to retire end up reacting towards the enemy even though they were no longer capable of flight operations due to sys/flt damage over 50 and have the toggle set at react when my next turn started. This is not the one hex reaction of an aggressive commander, its a full fledged charge, well at least it was when the TF's had more than 1/0 speed

Anyone else seen this? Does an aggressive commander cause this?

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Thu May 22, 2003 8:43 pm

Interesting. I have never seen an Air TF, containing only damaged CV's (>50%) react towards anything.

You can even change it to react/no retire, and the computer will auto change it back to retire next turn due to it not being able to operate aircraft.

Bill_L. · Post by **Bill_L.** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:28 pm

Twice with the TF that is still active, the other two I combined into one and they made it back to Noumea without switching. If it does it again this turn I will create a new TF and transfer the CV and its escort to it to see if it does it again.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Thu May 22, 2003 11:33 pm

I set the CV TF to follow another TF and then it won't react to anything, just make sure the CV TF is not slower than the TF it is follwing or it will be left behind and might reset itself.

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Thu May 22, 2003 11:59 pm

It is a problem.

If a CV is damaged and the AI breaks it off to form a TF with the CV and escorting destroyer, the default setting is "React to Enemy"

I had the AI dropped a CV out of my TF as it moved (sys damage around 40), and the newly formed TF (not capable of flight operations) react 1 hex towards the enemy and was plastered while the rest of TF had moved away.

There is sane reason to have the default for a TF created due to severe damage to a capital ship be set to "React to Enemy".

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Fri May 23, 2003 3:35 am

Yes, the break off move is normal.

It also sets a FLEE order for the DH of the home port. It is REACTING away from the enemies CV's.

I have never seen a CV step TOWARDS a CV when hurt.

Was the base it was fleeing towards between you and the enemy CV or did you mess with the split off CV during the orders phase that may have confused it's preprogramed flee orders?

If none of these happen to be the case and you happen to have a save prior to it doing this, fire it off to Dan in the Bug's section as that is quite obviously a bug popping up from something. If the CV was damaged enough to invoke the auto-split rule, there is no way it should have been doing anything other then running away at full steam towards home.

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:28 am

It reacted TOWARDS the enemy. It was part of TF when I gave the TF orders, and the break off and react happened during the execution.

I will see if I can find the save.

mapr · Post by **mapr** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:08 pm

AI CV TF commanders with react on really are eager to react and to attack. Just like little terrier puppies charging against big toe without understanding to what that toe is attached...

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Fri May 23, 2003 7:50 pm

That one-hex reaction is one thing I really hope will NOT be in WitP.

Yamamoto

AmiralLaurent · Post by **AmiralLaurent** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:22 pm

What I would like in WITP is a specific 'towing TF' to care about damaged ships, like in WWII.

A ship could be saved by other ships towing it, so drawing it nearer to friednly port. They could also help by sending repair teams or fighting fires from the side of the ships.

So it would also be possible to have a real escort for damaged ships, not see them separate everyday from your TF. Even giving the escort order to follow a damaged CV not always work.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Fri May 23, 2003 8:23 pm

I agree and don't agree. There is a VERY valid reason for it to be in the game, and it is VERY historical.

CV's would turn into the wind to launch a strike, then steam in the direction of the strike to close the range so fighters who were always short on gas would have more time to brawl.

It's a little corny how they have implemented it to ONLY be for CV vs CV reactions, but it does somewhat simulate the above quite nicely.

The alternative would be to disable it and have half your fighters crash on the return trip *IF* they had to fight CAP due to fuel shortages. Think of it as the local commander trying to save his airplanes and pilots. Then it makes perfect sense.

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Sat May 24, 2003 11:00 pm

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
I agree and don't agree. There is a VERY valid reason for it to be in the game, and it is VERY historical.

CV's would turn into the wind to launch a strike, then steam in the direction of the strike to close the range so fighters who were always short on gas would have more time to brawl.

It's a little corny how they have implemented it to ONLY be for CV vs CV reactions, but it does somewhat simulate the above quite nicely.

The alternative would be to disable it and have half your fighters crash on the return trip *IF* they had to fight CAP due to fuel shortages. Think of it as the local commander trying to save his airplanes and pilots. Then it makes perfect sense.

Makes sense, IF the carrier is capable of flight ops.......

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sun May 25, 2003 1:13 am

Makes sense, IF the carrier is capable of flight ops.......

Agreed, any ship with major damage should be running for the home base or running to the closest size 3 port that is not in the direction of what caused the damage

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Sun May 25, 2003 2:34 am

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Agreed, any ship with major damage should be running for the home base or running to the closest size 3 port that is not in the direction of what caused the damage

And not running from under protective CAP from a following TF and getting pounded either......

von Murrin · Post by **von Murrin** » Sun May 25, 2003 2:04 pm

I've seen this as well, however only several times. On every occasion there were enough aircraft onboard to generate a strike, and the CV could've, with luck, been capable of flight ops the next turn. Was this the case here as well?

Bill_L. · Post by **Bill_L.** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:42 pm

Originally posted by von Murrin
I've seen this as well, however only several times. On every occasion there were enough aircraft onboard to generate a strike, and the CV could've, with luck, been capable of flight ops the next turn. Was this the case here as well?

The 3 CV's involved all had damage levels in the low 60's (combined sys/flot) when they moved back towards the enemy. The a/c onboard were all damaged, the rest were operational losses or diverted to land bases.

Philwd · Post by **Philwd** » Wed May 28, 2003 9:39 am

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
Yes, the break off move is normal.

It also sets a FLEE order for the DH of the home port. It is REACTING away from the enemies CV's.

I have never seen a CV step TOWARDS a CV when hurt.

Was the base it was fleeing towards between you and the enemy CV or did you mess with the split off CV during the orders phase that may have confused it's preprogramed flee orders?

If none of these happen to be the case and you happen to have a save prior to it doing this, fire it off to Dan in the Bug's section as that is quite obviously a bug popping up from something. If the CV was damaged enough to invoke the auto-split rule, there is no way it should have been doing anything other then running away at full steam towards home.

I too have seen a heavily damaged CV react towards another CV force. Zuik was 88% damaged; no planes on board, react away from Luganville(mine) towards Lexington 1 hex. Had split off at the beginning of the turn so I had no chance to adjust react settings. Took her out of CAP coverage. I no longer have a save but can attest it does happen. The base was not between Zuik and Lex. I was probably going to lose Zuik anyway but this sure made it easy.

Quark

Air Combat TF's switching to react to enemy on their own.

Air Combat TF's switching to react to enemy on their own.

AI commanders